[Celty]

Hello guys, I m interesting to buy the p20 and I have some questions...
Which upgrade combo (tube type and power supply) is the best.
I have the sennheiser hd 660s and for source I m using the pioneer N70ae .
I feed the p20 from pioneer N70ae xlr outputs.

I got my power supply on Amazon - the "SHNITPWR 12V 5A 60W Power Supply" for $11.68. My 6N3P-DR tubes came from tubes-store.com - $6.00 each.

 

[PaganDL]

I want to ask if someone test the p20 with sennheiser hd 660s...???
And how it sounds compared to smsl sp200.
I was thinking maybe is better option to buy the smsl sp200..???
I prefer more musical sound not the clinical.

@pankar0,

While I can't tell you how the P 20 sounds with the 660, not a fan of Senn head gear, except 820...

Aside from SP 200 being a solid state & THX, which subjectively & personally, I find tuned warmer than the P20, with both stock & 6n3 DR tubes, depends what you are going for overall aside from more musical as I like both amps in equal measure...but for different reasons...with musical being one for both...

The only real advantage SP 200 has over P 20 is it runs ridiculously cool (this might be useful given you are in Athens) & has such a low noise floor unless something is playing, you might not know it's on (aside from the really, really bright LEDs which tell you it is)
However, P 20 is the only tube amp at any level I have used, aside from owning, which I can use with really, really sensitive IEMs.

Hope this makes sense.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[pankar0]

Thank you for your help,
I'm in love with the design and color (red) of the p20... also the tubes brings a nice atmosphere for the eyes pleasure...
The reason that I was thinking the smsl is the similar price with the p20 (tube rolling, power supply it's about 200€).
The smsl is 90€ over...
The second reason is the distortion, I think the loxjie (tube amp) have issues with that.
Or make a mistake..??
I m a new at headphones .

 

[PaganDL]

Thank you for your help,
I'm in love with the design and color (red) of the p20... also the tubes brings a nice atmosphere for the eyes pleasure...
The reason that I was thinking the smsl is the similar price with the p20 (tube rolling, power supply it's about 200€).
The smsl is 90€ over...
The second reason is the distortion, I think the loxjie (tube amp) have issues with that.
Or make a mistake..??
I m a new at headphones .

@pankar0,

No problem, happy to help.

Honestly, here's the thing, with P 20, tube rolling is unnecessary unless you really want to...
Personally & subjectively, I suggest using the stock tubes for a year before you decide to tube roll though as said, P 20 doesn't need a tube change.
I had my P 20 for almost 2 years before I decided to try the Miltary Spec tubes, that's what the DR stands for by the way, over stock.
Personally & subjectively, there's not a whole lot of difference sonically though your mileage will vary.
My reason for changing the tubes was more longevity as Mil Spec Grades usually last twice as long, minimum, compared to conventional tube, not to mention more robust.
As to power supply, I have no issues with the stock PSU so honestly, changing it just for the sake won't really gain you any benefit...that's my experience anyway...

Regarding distortion, aside from sound in general being distorted air, how loud are you playing to listen at as P 20 especially, doesn't need to be very loud, I usually don't have it more than -20 db (10db) most of the time, with sensitive IEMs, the average is usually -15 average.
Generally, the only issue with tube amps tends to be a audible to high noise floor, especially for sensitive IEMs & some sensitive headphones, (below 20 Ohms for both).
As I mentioned in my previous post, P 20 is the ONLY tube amp, so far & I have used many, far more than I own, I would listen with sensitive head gear.

As a final note, honestly, the only way to gain more experience with audio gear is to demo as much as possible with a good quality, well recorded source, playing media you know really well.
As my tag states, trust your own ears & opinions, not anyone else's.

Feel free to ask more when you need.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[pankar0]

@pankar0,

No problem, happy to help.

Honestly, here's the thing, with P 20, tube rolling is unnecessary unless you really want to...
Personally & subjectively, I suggest using the stock tubes for a year before you decide to tube roll though as said, P 20 doesn't need a tube change.
I had my P 20 for almost 2 years before I decided to try the Miltary Spec tubes, that's what the DR stands for by the way, over stock.
Personally & subjectively, there's not a whole lot of difference sonically though your mileage will vary.
My reason for changing the tubes was more longevity as Mil Spec Grades usually last twice as long, minimum, compared to conventional tube, not to mention more robust.
As to power supply, I have no issues with the stock PSU so honestly, changing it just for the sake won't really gain you any benefit...that's my experience anyway...

Regarding distortion, aside from sound in general being distorted air, how loud are you playing to listen at as P 20 especially, doesn't need to be very loud, I usually don't have it more than -20 db (10db) most of the time, with sensitive IEMs, the average is usually -15 average.
Generally, the only issue with tube amps tends to be a audible to high noise floor, especially for sensitive IEMs & some sensitive headphones, (below 20 Ohms for both).
As I mentioned in my previous post, P 20 is the ONLY tube amp, so far & I have used many, far more than I own, I would listen with sensitive head gear.

As a final note, honestly, the only way to gain more experience with audio gear is to demo as much as possible with a good quality, well recorded source, playing media you know really well.
As my tag states, trust your own ears & opinions, not anyone else's.

Feel free to ask more when you need.

Hope you have a great day !

Thank you again...

Ok maybe you have right... the 99€ it's a bargain price and I must try and listen and enjoy this amp ...
I want to ask you about the cables.
I need a 4pin xlr cable for my 660s.(any suggestion from Europe ) or can i use an adaptor for the stock sennheiser 4.4 balanced cable... something like this..???

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/jack...emale-jack-44mm-gold-plated-15cm-p-13867.html

 

[PaganDL]

Thank you again...

Ok maybe you have right... the 99€ it's a bargain price and I must try and listen and enjoy this amp ...
I want to ask you about the cables.
I need a 4pin xlr cable for my 660s.(any suggestion from Europe ) or can i use an adaptor for the stock sennheiser 4.4 balanced cable... something like this..???

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/jack...emale-jack-44mm-gold-plated-15cm-p-13867.html

No problem, @pankar0,

Happy to help.

I have no experience with the company you linked to as I am outside the EU to give you an opinion though this should work but don't quote me.
I have a both a similar adapter & a dedicated cable with 4 pin XLR though personally, depending on mood, I generally just use the Single Ended if I don't want to mess around with cable connections.
If there wasn't a health crisis in China, I suggest getting a just as affordable custom version from veclan.com
However, better suggestion would be try to find a pro audio shop in your local area which either has the same adapter off the shelf or get the pro audio shop to make you a custom one.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[tomp86]

how long does it take to make the p20 warm up?
I listen to it 60 h with 6N3P-DR tubes
and I miss the sound detali

 

[rprodrigues]

I'm considering buying the P20 to drive my HD6x and HE4xx but I would like to drive my low impedance IEMs and heaphones also.

Anyone using an impedance adapter to drive low impedance hp and IEMs ? Any issue?

 

[rprodrigues]

Yesterday afternoon, I did go ahead and assemble the Balanced 4-Pin XLR Plug -to- 2.5mm TRRS Jack Adapter, and verified that the wiring is correct, using the tests on AudioCheck.net.
.

.

.

.

DBaldock9,

Nice work!

Would you mind sharing the models of the XLR and 2.5mm connectors?

 

[dpump]

(Mass)Drop sells this adaptor complete for $20. The Drop adaptor does have all gold plated connections and seems to be nice quality.

 

[rprodrigues]

(Mass)Drop sells this adaptor complete for $20. The Drop adaptor does have all gold plated connections and seems to be nice quality.

I will take a look at it.
Thank you.

 

[DBaldock9]

DBaldock9,

Nice work!

Would you mind sharing the models of the XLR and 2.5mm connectors?

I've tried a few different 2.5mm TRRS jacks, for building Balanced cable adapters & extensions, and the one that grips the plug the best, and provides the most secure electrical connection (no drop-outs when the cable is twisted or moved), is the Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS jack.
I've bought some from Norne Audio - http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...astell-kern-onkyo-cowon-hiby-r3-diy-connector
One thing about these connectors, is that they don't have a back-shell - so you have to use heat-shrink or some other method to protect the solder connections.

The Neutrik XLR Plug came from Amazon - https://smile.amazon.com/Neutrik-NC4MXXB-Connector-Housing-Contacts/dp/B002A4GJ8Q/
NOTE: I did have to file down the interior cable clamp assembly, so that it didn't put too much stress on the solder connections of the TRRS jack.

I believe that I used some 20-AWG solid wire between the lugs on the 2.5mm jack, and the solder cups on the XLR plug.
Two of the wires are straight, and two "cross over".
The crossing wires are cut a little longer, so they're all the same length, when everything is soldered together.

 

[rprodrigues]

Thank you @DBaldock9


I already have a replacement for the Neutrik XLR Plug, but the Eidolic connector has an 'unusual' body. I will try to find something similar, otherwise I will mount the usual cable adapter.

 

[rprodrigues]

@pankar0,

While I can't tell you how the P 20 sounds with the 660, not a fan of Senn head gear, except 820...

Aside from SP 200 being a solid state & THX, which subjectively & personally, I find tuned warmer than the P20, with both stock & 6n3 DR tubes, depends what you are going for overall aside from more musical as I like both amps in equal measure...but for different reasons...with musical being one for both...

The only real advantage SP 200 has over P 20 is it runs ridiculously cool (this might be useful given you are in Athens) & has such a low noise floor unless something is playing, you might not know it's on (aside from the really, really bright LEDs which tell you it is)
However, P 20 is the only tube amp at any level I have used, aside from owning, which I can use with really, really sensitive IEMs.

Hope this makes sense.

Hope you have a great day !

Hi there, PaganDL.

Have you used any impedance adapter with the P20 and your IEMs?

 

[PaganDL]

Hi there, PaganDL.

Have you used any impedance adapter with the P20 and your IEMs?

Hi @rprodrigues,

Apologies for the delay in reply.

Unfortunately, impedance adapters don't work for me as I have quite good hearing on the sensitive side so even with a high impedance adapter, I can pick up hiss & overall noise.
If I use gear which has a high noise floor which isn't very often, I usually don't use sensitive IEMs or any IEMs.

P20 is perhaps the only tube amp I have used so far which is able to be used with sensitive IEMs no problem.
I have mentioned in previous posts the noise floor on the P20 is ridiculously low for a tube amp.

Hope this is useful.

Hope you have a great day !