Lowest Jitter USB or PCI transports

[donws]

Does anyone know which USB or PCI cards have the lowest jitter coax or optical outputs? I'm currently using a Juli@ in one computer, but in that case the Juli@'s internal DAC is feeding a multizone amp for a whole-house audio setup.

For my "dedicated" listening room, I'd like to configure another computer source to feed an external DAC via coax or optical digital out. I have an old laptop and an old desktop that I could put into use, so I'm trying to determine which computer plus specific USB or PCI hardware will create the best PC-based "digital transport."

Would it be better to setup the desktop with another Juli@ or perhaps the laptop with a M-audio Audiophile USB. I'm willing to spend up to maybe $250 on the USB or PCI card if need be. Thanks!

 

[utilisateur]

A card from RME might be your best choice if you'r realy after low jitter

No idea what the price will turn out once shipping and taxes are added but this might still be a very intersting deal for you
http://www.thomann.de/de/rme_digi_968_pad.htm

RME claims jitter is sub 1ns

 

[tschanrm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donws /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does anyone know which USB or PCI cards have the lowest jitter coax or optical outputs? I'm currently using a Juli@ in one computer, but in that case the Juli@'s internal DAC is feeding a multizone amp for a whole-house audio setup. For my "dedicated" listening room, I'd like to configure another computer source to feed an external DAC via coax or optical digital out. I have an old laptop and an old desktop that I could put into use, so I'm trying to determine which computer plus specific USB or PCI hardware will create the best PC-based "digital transport." Would it be better to setup the desktop with another Juli@ or perhaps the laptop with a M-audio Audiophile USB. I'm willing to spend up to maybe $250 on the USB or PCI card if need be. Thanks!

EMU products claim to have less than 1ns jitter as well. As long as you can figure out their drivers, I think they are some of the best audio value.

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

The HR MicroDAC might fit the bill.

 

[ironmine]

Quote:

http://www.thomann.de/de/rme_digi_968_pad.htm
RME claims jitter is sub 1ns

Did you mean the phrase: "Super Low Jitter Design: < 1 ns im PLL Betrieb (44,1 kHz, optical In)"? It just means the accuracy of the PLL for the incoming signal. I cannot see any jitter specs for the outgoing signal.

 

[regal]

Emu 0404 PCI,  you will not do better.  Tricky to setup but I could send you the config files.  Other than that its the best computer transport I have heard.
 
Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by donws /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does anyone know which USB or PCI cards have the lowest jitter coax or optical outputs? I'm currently using a Juli@ in one computer, but in that case the Juli@'s internal DAC is feeding a multizone amp for a whole-house audio setup. For my "dedicated" listening room, I'd like to configure another computer source to feed an external DAC via coax or optical digital out. I have an old laptop and an old desktop that I could put into use, so I'm trying to determine which computer plus specific USB or PCI hardware will create the best PC-based "digital transport." Would it be better to setup the desktop with another Juli@ or perhaps the laptop with a M-audio Audiophile USB. I'm willing to spend up to maybe $250 on the USB or PCI card if need be. Thanks!

EMU products claim to have less than 1ns jitter as well. As long as you can figure out their drivers, I think they are some of the best audio value.

 

[leeperry]

Hardly anybody has the gear to measure jitter and it's inaudible by essence, so all you'll get is real world recommendations from ppl who like their current gear. One thing's for sure, you'll need two low ppm discrete clocks for 44.1/48kHz frequencies(like on the Envy24 based cards and the Hiface).

 

[regal]

 
Correct (surprising), btw the Emu0404PCI meets these requirements and sounds better than the Hiface is stock form.

 
Quote:

Hardly anybody has the gear to measure jitter and it's inaudible by essence, so all you'll get is real world recommendations from ppl who like their current gear. One thing's for sure, you'll need two low ppm discrete clocks for 44.1/48kHz frequencies(like on the Envy24 based cards and the Hiface).

 

[ironmine]

Quote:

Hardly anybody has the gear to measure jitter and it's inaudible by essence, so all you'll get is real world recommendations from ppl who like their current gear. One thing's for sure, you'll need two low ppm discrete clocks for 44.1/48kHz frequencies(like on the Envy24 based cards and the Hiface).

Hello Leeperry!
 
Why are you so sure that "two low ppm discrete clocks" will be better than "one clock with FPGA"?
 
I can hardly believe that sound card manufacturers don't have tools to measure the jitter.

 

[Kawai_man]

+1 on the 0404 pci card, I've personally dont have any experience with any soundcard but I read a thread over at another forum where a guy was pissed off because his e-mu 0404 pci sounded better than the benchmark dac-1 everybody recommended him.

 

[Kawai_man]

Quote:

 
Correct (surprising), btw the Emu0404PCI meets these requirements and sounds better than the Hiface is stock form.

 

 

so the digital outs from the e-mu sound better than the hiface's?

 

[ironmine]

Quote:

Correct (surprising), btw the Emu0404PCI meets these requirements and sounds better than the Hiface is stock form.

 
Hello Regal!
 
Does Emu0404PCI support 88.2 kHz through the digital output?
 
So, do you, in general, think that PCI cards are better for outputting the digital signal than USB-SPDIF devices?
 
If I use a PCI card with a 7 m long digital coaxial cable, will such long length seriously add to the jitter?
 

 

[leeperry]

the 0404PCI only has one PLL btw...I'd suggest fanboys to check on facts before feeding bs on public forums: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~timc/e/emu/emu_001.jpg
 
It's got a pulse transformer on the coax output, that's good!
 

Why are you so sure that "two low ppm discrete clocks" will be better than "one clock with FPGA"?
 
I can hardly believe that sound card manufacturers don't have tools to measure the jitter.

 
Oh, they can measure it! but they don't really care....only OCD'ed ppl care about <50ps jitter, and you'll also need a low jitter S/PDIF receiver to get any benefit from it(DIR9001 or better?). I personally care a lot of more about sample rates accuracy than jitter(but I also don't care for 24bit which can easily become a jitter madness, I only listen at low volume on headphones...16bit is already overkill hah).
 
asus was forced to use a clock conditioner on their essence st soundcard because the CMI8768 DSP uses a 24.976MHz(48000kHz*256) clock...so 44.1kHz is a jittery party.
 
musiland fall short on their 48MHz PLL+50K gates FPGA...jkeny told me ages ago that doing this was a terrible idea jitter-wise, and only a 250K gates FPGA would help...reason why I'm eagerly awaiting a new Musiland 03 w/ that new FPGA. At least they have rocking drivers!

 

[regal]

Yes it supports 88.2.  The studios don't use USB because so far it just doesn't sound as good,  and there is no NIST ASTM jitter measurement test method for transports that is what lee perry has no concept of.  Its really more art than science at this point.
 
That doesn't mean we give up on USB,  there IS potential.  I have high hopes for the battery powered Hiface,  but if you aren't going to mod stick with the 0404PCI it sounds significantly better.  Even its suspect jitter measurements are better than the stock hiface.  There is more too it than a single Jitter number there is jitter spectrum,  where you have a majority of the jitter in a small freuency range is much worse than if it is spread even across the spectrum keeping it almost inaudible.  People don't understand that.
 
Quote:

Quote:
 
Hello Regal!
 
Does Emu0404PCI support 88.2 kHz through the digital output?
 
So, do you, in general, think that PCI cards are better for outputting the digital signal than USB-SPDIF devices?
 
If I use a PCI card with a 7 m long digital coaxial cable, will such long length seriously add to the jitter?
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Quote:
 
Hello Regal!
 
Does Emu0404PCI support 88.2 kHz through the digital output?
 
So, do you, in general, think that PCI cards are better for outputting the digital signal than USB-SPDIF devices?
 
If I use a PCI card with a 7 m long digital coaxial cable, will such long length seriously add to the jitter?
 

I think it depends on the device.  Some soundcards have great S/Pdif outputs that were designed with quality in mind.  On the flipside you get what you pay for. 
Your system is only as good as it's weakest link.