[bcaulf17]

Hi everyone!

I think I want to upgrade my setup. Lately I’ve had both the Focal Clear and Focal Celestee on my mind a ton but I have some questions/concerns.

Right now, I have HD6XX, Sundara, EMU Ebony and K371 as my main rotation. I would likely sell all of those but the Ebony just because it’s special to me and so fun to listen to. My goal is to have the Clear as my end game open back and the Celestee as my end game closed back (would use at home sometimes, but mostly at work or on trips if I do end up traveling soon). Kinda like they’d be a matching pair. Thing is I’m unsure what to do; the Celestee just came out and there’s only one review, what if it’s not nearly as good as the price tag suggests? I need to wait a little longer but patience is tough haha.

Same for the Clear. I’m waiting for a good deal to jump on one but I’m trying to be patient because a new ‘Mg’ version was just leaked and I have no idea what it’s about. Is it improved on the Clear? Will it be the same price as the Clear while the Clear price goes down? Hopefully I won’t have to wait much longer for news but holding out is tough!

Lastly, would it be worth it to upgrade my setup? Somehow the Topping A90/D90 appeal to me but I feel like I should be set with my THX 789 and Topping E30 as I’m not very good discerning amp or DAC differences.

Anyway what do you guys think about all this? Is it worth waiting on the Clear until there’s more news about this new version? I know I’d probably love the Clear either way but I don’t wanna get the Clear and then right after the Mg is revealed and ends up being better. Thanks!

 

[Shabda]

Even if the mg isnt better it’d probably bring the price of the clear down right? Probably best to wait! But if I had my sights set on these phones I’d be pretty antsy in the pantsy too

side question what are your thoughts on clear vs elex?

 

[bcaulf17]

Even if the mg isnt better it’d probably bring the price of the clear down right? Probably best to wait! But if I had my sights set on these phones I’d be pretty antsy in the pantsy too

side question what are your thoughts on clear vs elex?

Haven’t heard the Elex but from what I’ve gathered the Clear is worth the extra cost, and there seems to have been a whole saga involving Drop sending out defective units.

 

[Shabda]

Yea that’s about what i’ve gathered as well, especially if you come across a good used clear

 

[ADUHF]

A recent review of the Celestee.



Haven't heard this HP, but as a general rule, I'm not a big fan of bright steeply-sloped mids, like these seem to have on the graph in the video. Because it just sounds rather harsh and unnatural to me. I can understand why some fans of brighter headphones like that, because it gets a little closer to a diffuse field response...

A diffuse field curve will stay brighter though through the treble as well, like in the above image. Whereas alot of headphones with that steep rise in the upper mids will have a more laid back response in the treble. So you've got this bright upper mid section, and then less detail above it, which doesn't make much sense to me sonically, or balance-wise.

That may work well for some older people with bad hearing loss in the upper mid to low treble frequencies (which is apparently a common condition, especially for older men). But it just sounds harsh and unnatural to me. Both of my current headphones, the DT-770 and M50x, have brightly-tilted mids which are also recessed in the lower mid/upper bass crossover, like the Celestee seems to be. And it is one of the things I like the least about their sound...

250-Ohm DT-770 Raw Frequency Response:
LEFT: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#440/4011
RIGHT: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#440/4012

M50X Raw Frequency Response:
LEFT: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#295/4011
RIGHT: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#295/4012

The DT-770 at least maintains some of that brightness in the treble. So it is a little more like a diffuse field sound... if that's really somethin you want.

The Clear is also rather bright in that 1k to 2.5k upper midrange, based on some plots I've seen. And I know Tyll sort of liked those, and other HPs with the upward tilt in the mids. But he was also gettin a bit older by that time, and may have been suffering from some hearing loss in that range as well. I don't doubt that some people like that feature though, and think it helps with live performances and acoustics. With certain types of music that I like to listen to though, it can get quite abrasive-sounding! Especially (it seems) with alot of content that is more heavily compressed in the dynamic range to increase its loudness. (Which is mostly what I listen to.)

Alot of music content being made these days is probably also being produced for headphones and IEMs with sound signatures that look a bit more like this, with much more darkly-tilted mids...

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-3-1/graph#313/3182
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-3-1/graph#313/3183

If that is the kind of sound signature that you're mastering content for, with the more recessed upper-mids, then the recording will inevitably end up being brighter in the upper mids. Which would only be exacerbated by a headphone that's also bright in that same area.

I'm not suggesting that a headphone should be as darkly tilted in the mids as the Bose. For everyday music listening though, perhaps there needs to be maybe a little more of a compromise between the two above extremes.

 

[ADUHF]

A recent article by Floyd Toole that helps to explain some of the acoustic preferences of audiophiles and older listeners for a brighter, more "free-field" sound, with less bass/room interference. Most of the info on this is in the second page on "What Do Listeners Prefer". The part about "hidden hearing loss" is particularly interesting....

https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/room-reflections-human-adaptation
https://www.audioholics.com/room-ac...ons-human-adaptation/what-do-listeners-prefer

I suffer from high-frequency hearing loss as well. But it seems to effect me somewhat differently than the above examples. Because I still seem to prefer a somewhat warmer and bassier, and maybe a bit more U-shaped response, that's a bit flatter in the upper mids. Maybe that has more to do with the way the music I listen to is being authored though.

 

[bcaulf17]

Hi @ADUHF thank you for your comment and helpful information! I’m not sure it answers my question though. I’m pretty set on the Clear, just mostly wondering if I should wait for more news on the possible new version coming out.

Good points in regards to the Celestee but, I’ve learned in this hobby that while measurements can be a helpful tool, enjoyment ultimately comes down to what one hears, not what one sees. In the posted review despite those measurements Andrew seemed to really like the sound of the headphone and I’m hoping that will be the result of other listeners, setting me up with a greater level of buyer confidence.

 

[ADUHF]

Good points in regards to the Celestee but, I’ve learned in this hobby that while measurements can be a helpful tool, enjoyment ultimately comes down to what one hears, not what one sees. In the posted review despite those measurements Andrew seemed to really like the sound of the headphone and I’m hoping that will be the result of other listeners, setting me up with a greater level of buyer confidence.

They are your ears, as the sayin goes.

In the K371 topic, you mentioned that you felt those were maybe a little thin-sounding and lacking in body. I wouldn't necessarily disagree. But was just sort of curious what you meant by that.

 

[bcaulf17]

They are your ears, as the sayin goes.

In the K371 topic, you mentioned that you felt those were maybe a little thin-sounding and lacking in body. I wouldn't necessarily disagree. But was just sort of curious what you meant by that.

Sure! Just to sort of cover my own butt (haha!) I’ve been in this hobby a few years now and I have decent experience but I may not be the best at describing things;

To start, I don’t think it’s from a lack of mid-bass, or low mids, which is usually where you find body. I have a Sundara, and it’s fairly lean as well I believe, on paper, but when I listen to it, the notes have more weight and life to them, perhaps it’s the dynamics and soundstage being better, maybe it has to do with timbre. Same with the HD6XX but I know that headphone has a slight mid bass lift.

It’s kinda like the K371 sound more like good headphones, it’s the sound I’d expect when I put on a pair of studio headphones, which is not a bad thing, but I don’t feel like I’m getting as involved with the music when I listen to them. I also think part of it is it doesn’t layer or image as well, so it’s more like the music is less involving and emotional. It’s also not the most detailed.

Hopefully that makes sense. And don’t get me wrong, I still think the K371 is killer, and I really can’t fault it because it’s only $150. In fact, I think it performs a little better than its price point suggests. I would be happy with them long term, but perhaps there is better. When I’m at home, I use my Sundara and EMU Ebony and it provides me with a more enjoyable experience. The music sounds more full and natural.