[5th_Ghostbuster]

Hi all! I'm relatively new to all this audiophile stuff. I'm looking into getting a quality set of 'cans', and I've got quite a number of questions I need help with before I make my decision on which to get. Forgive me for sounding like the complete noob that I am, but I need some help. I don't know of anyone else who's into this sort of thing. Hmm...where to start...

Here's some info on what I'm looking for:
-I plan to use the cans almost exclusively with my discman, a Sony D-EJ915
-for use around the home, at school, on trips (car)
-I listen to roughly 50% classic rock, 10% soul, 10% house, 30% hip hop
-being this is my entry into the world of high end audio, I'm gonna start small, so I'm looking for some cans preferrably around the 100 dollar range...MAYBE more if there are some that get a strong recommendation.
-I don't have the extra cash for an amp, so what are some suggestions for cans that are great without one...or, what are some that I could buy now, that sound good, and that I could buy an amp for in the future
-I've read about all the differences between open and sealed, and such, but as I haven't actually had the chance to sample any headphones I'm not sure which I prefer. This is likely going to be a blind buy (doubt any stores in my city carry what I'm looking for...gonna have to order over the internet). So, I'm open to suggestions for both sealed and open pads and muffs. Not buds, though.

A couple cans that sound good to me are: Grado SR 80, Sony MDR V6, Senn HD 497, Senn HD 280, and the Beyer DT 231. My head is absolutely SPINNING though, trying to differentiate these phones and decide which will be the best for me. So many varying opinions on this board, and I'm just lost.

A couple questions:
1. My discman, a Sony D-EJ915 has that Bass Boost thing. Does this thing screw around with the sound? On a pair of Grado SR 80's, which I've read that some people are unhappy with the lack of bass, does it improve listening for stuff like hip hop? Or does it mess with the sound, and muck things up.

2. I have glasses. Will they get in the way of comfort on any models of cans?

Actually, I had more questions, but I've already managed to forget them. I'll post them when they come to me.

I know most of you regulars on this board must be sick of the 'I'm a noob...I want to know what to get' threads, but I'd really appreciate the helppp. Thanks.

 

[delenda est Sony]

Hi 5 GB---

here'e my two cents. For rock (and your other choices), if I had to get one sub-$100 phone, I would recommend the Grado SR60. Yep, 60 not 80. I listened to both cans a lot before buying one, and I thought the 80s were not worth the extra $25 or so more that they cost compared to the 60s. The 60s have tight balanced bass which will sound thin if you are accustomed to cheap cans and MegaBass settings. However, the 80s throw in too much bass and it ends up overpowering the middle range. The ideal solution in the Grado line is the 125s and above, but those cost more than your budget. The 80s have their fans, but I thought the 60s were lots more enjoyable and at a lower price. Also, in the opinions of many, the 80s need a dedicated amp to sound their best. (I never heard them with an amp, so I can't comment.) The 60s though sound just fine with or without an amp...

The 497s are excellent balanced phones, and have the ideal compromise bass effect, more pronounced than the 80s but less dominant than the 80s. However, I feel that if you don't listen to acoustic music (classical and jazz) the SR60 is a better choice. The Grados have a "you are there" sound to them that brings you right into the music. The Senn 497s are fine phones, but they don't have that in-your-face Grado effect. (You may, by the way, completely hate the Grado sound, so do try and listen before you buy. Or at least make sure your vendor has a good exchange policy...)

As for comfort, the Grados have their detractors and admirers. I wear glasses and a big head and I think the 60s are very comfortable out of the box. Others (deformed head types...

) may not agree, but even if you feel the Grados are a bit tight, stretching em overnight would probably eliminate all complaints.

Other choices: if you don't need isolation, get open cans. If you do need closed cans, the Senn HD 280s are the best sub-$150 choice. V6 is OK, and is king of bass, but it is not a balanced sounding phone (treble is shrill) and the soundstage is not very broad. I have not heard much about the Beyer 231, so someone else can answer as to that one.

Bass button: turn it off. Mangles music. Listen to Moby's "Play" with and without MegaBass and hear the horrible truth: MegaBass, especially for music with a strong bass line, inevitably changes the sound of the recording and muddies the mid range. It will be tough at first living without the thumping, but you will gradually appreciate the integrity of hearing music like its supposed to be heard as intended by the artist. IMHO!

good hunting!

 

[fyleow]

I would reccomend the Sennheiser 497s. They don't seem to leak as much as the Grado SR 60s and they are more comfortable. I don't get sweaty ears and sometimes I forget it's there, but I will admit sometimes it gets annoying because it's supra aural. I have listened to a pair of 570s and they are much more comfortable. You should be able to get a pair of 570s for a resonable price btw (below 100) but the volume might be a problem. My Nomad 2 MG can drive it well enough but I was listening to it in a relatively quiet environment so I can't really comment.

IMO the Sennheiser 497s offers a very in your face presentation. I have listened to both the SR 60 and the Sennheiser and they are very similar. In the end I decided to stick with the Sennheisers because they were cheaper.

If you listen to classical alot you might want to check out the Sennheiser 570s. I love the sound but it was kinda late unless I wanted to eat the cost of massive restocking fees but I prefer them over the 497s. More comfortable, better presentation, and better overall sound quality. Though some people might find it abit bright for their tastes. If you are willing to spend abit more the 590s are also worth checking out.

 

[dohminator]

I would recommend the audio technica A55. Which can be found at www.audio-cubes.com

They do not need an amp at all. They are closed, so you won't disturb anybody, and they won't disturb you. They have a good tight bass responce. These cans really do go well with the rock music I listen too. They grab a hold of you and make you feel like your in the front row of a concert. They also make it feel as if the music is surrounding you. Great soundstage.

These are big headphones. They are extremely comfortable, but you may get a few looks if your walking around in them. They fit around your ears, and you can hardly notice that you are wearing headphones.

I think you would be happy with the ATH A55.

 

[jlo mein]

when you said you listen to 50% classical rock and want em for sub $100, i IMMEDIATELY thought GRADO SR60.....these things will do that music justice.

Plus, at $69 it will be cheap enuff for you to also pick up some koss 35's. They'll do well for a little more bass, and better for when you use them portably (at school).

You said that you listen to 30% hip hop...this concerns me...before i ran into head-fi (its like a train smacking you in the face, i know), i listened to almost all hip hop and rap. i thought the boomier the bass, the better. Now, i totally realize the true qualities of REAL music and have almost quit listening to hip hop all together. I find the musical experiences of orchestra and classical guitar much more enjoyable now (odd change, i know)...

i think if you do get grados you WILL be listening to your hip hop in new ways....wether you will like it or not is your opinion...

but anyways....i totally support the grado 60's and i recommend the koss 35's for portable use...

 

[5th_Ghostbuster]

Hmm...

delenda est Sony:
You say the SR80s need an amp, as do the guys over at HeadRoom to sound its best. But the guy at Goodcans.com speaks highly of the SR80, recommending it over the SR60, and doesn't say you need an amp for it. Playing out of a discman apparently is fine, according to him. And from what I've read on this forum (been rooting through them these last few days), a lot of people prefer the SR80, again not needing an amp for them to sound just fine. Again, I'm kind of torn, but I thank you for your input.

jlo mein:
I used to listen to nothing but hip hop as well. But in the past few years I've switched over to classic rock (and I forgot to mention...I listen to just as much Indie as I do classic rock, so that might screw up the ratios I put up there...so I guess I'm looking for something where my rock will sound great, but still get that bit of bass for hip hop and house) as well. I'm curious, you (like myself) are in Canada, so where abouts did you get your Grado's from? I'm still trying to find a store in my city that carries them (Saskatoon). Thanks!

 

[Duncan]

Hi 5th GB and welcome to Head-Fi

I would be very hypocritical of some of the suggestions here... low ohmage 'phones sound like crap (to be blunt) through personal equipment, a shallow bass, no midrange whatsoever and a very shrill, unlistenable treble (low ohm 'phones need POWER which 5mw just will NOT provide)... You say that you don't intend to buy an amp... if you could be swayed to do so, you could pick up a JMT Altoids amp for around $100 (depending on the specs you need) to use through the line out and then you can pick up the Grados, the Sonys or whatever and run them through the JMT...

I don't know if its out of your league or not pricewise, and only one person here, Flasken has a not too dissimilar setup to what you're wanting (he has the 925, rather than the 915)... is to audition a pair of BeyerDynamic DT-250s through the headphone out, if I remember correctly Flasken has the 80 ohm version (much nearer the 120ohm standard for headphones than 32)... it might be worth dropping him a PM, or seeing if he'll add weight to my statement within this thread.

Beyers with Glasses? I'm not too sure ~ they have nice squishy, comfy pads... they should have enough give in them to not push the glasses into your head?!

As confusing as ever this audio malarky

 

[Flasken]

Hi 5th_Ghostbuster. Wellcome to head-fi!!

First i'd like to thank Duncan for pointing out to me in a pm, that you and I are very much the same.

4 months ago I stood in the exact same position as you do now. We have the same music preferences so you could consider me a a possible future version of you (audio-wise)

The DT250 is the gold match. You will be very happy with it, just as I am and was. As Duncan stated I use it with a player just as weak or weaker than yours and I have the volume at 1/3 most of the time, which leaves plenty of room for cds recorded at a low volume.

You could also read my review

And the last thing I did to help you

was try these suckers on with my moms glasses - I could not feel they were there.

good luck!!

 

[jpelg]

Grado SR60's.

my .02!

 

[fredpb]

Wow. Lot of different suggestions here. I have used a few for portable use.

I have and dumped the Grado SR60's. No bass whatsoever.
You may not be happy since you play music with a beat.

My vote is for the SONY V6 aka MDR7506.

Efficient and easy to drive. Good isolation. Good construction.
Great bass. Great sound. Cheap. V6's should be around $70, same as Grado's.

And there is the Koss KSC-35's too. They clip on the outside of ear. They have good sound.

 

[delenda est Sony]

Gentlemen, please! Student on a budget says "find me $100 headphones" and immediately he is referred to $150 Beyers, $100 amp setups with cost of phones extra, etc. Some people actually _have_ a fixed budget for this stuff!

(And if that is $100 Canadian dollars, the Beyers are WAY over budget for 5th GB!)

Many sub-$100 headphones sound just fine even out of 5 mW PCDP. My SR60s and 497s see only a marginal improvement even with a 9V JMT or 15V Headroom Little. I would opine that with those two cans, you see 85-90% of their capability without an amp. 5GB, don't feel obligated to go way overbudget to get an amp. Eventually buying an amp is a fine idea, but you'll do just fine with SR60s with no amp to start.

As for Goodcans thoughts on the 60s vs the 80s, well, everyone has an opinion on this stuff. He makes an extra $25 on the sale, but I don't think the 80s sound better to my ears. And I am giving the 80s the benefit of the doubt and am surmising they sound less muddy with more power. They may not, in which case having an amp would not do you any good!

There is a tendency to think that every step up the price range gets you better sound, but this is not always true. The Grado 225s and 80s in my opinion are each not much superior to their cheaper stablemates the 125 and the 60.

I would definitely suggest avoiding the 570s. They exceed your price range, and they truly sound wretched. They are designed for classical music only, and even at that intended use, their weak bass and brittle harsh treble are annoying. There are far better phones available in the same price range. I listened to the 570s extensively and found the 497 superior in every way except for comfort and build quality where the 570s had an edge. At the 570s are more than twice the price of the 497s, this should not be too surprising!

SR60 as your starters still looks good to me!

 

[kerelybonto]

I own both the Grado SR80 and Sony MDR-V6, my only good pairs of headphones. I just got into this recently, so hopefully my opinion can be of some help.

The SR80 and V6 are similar-sounding 'phones, and moving up from cheap headphones included with portable sources, you probably won't hear a difference for a while. In the short time I've had them, I've developed a preference for the sound of the SR80, but I still like the V6. The biggest difference between the two is that the SR80 is open and the V6 is closed. This leads to some different sound characteristics, but more importantly for the headphone tyro, they're suitable for different uses. The closed V6 provide decent sound isolation from the outside world, and also keep any sound from leaking. That makes them much better for portable use when an open headphone would not let you hear your music over external noise (without turning the volume way up) and keeps from annoying those around you. The SR80 or any other open 'phones really are not suited to a portable environment, in my opinion.

I don't have a problem driving either headphone out of my 9mW-output portable CD player or my 5mW-output MiniDisc player. All these people will tell you you'll get better sound with an amp, and you will -- but not much better. As you get more into high-quality sound you can decide if you can justify the cost of an amp. (I'm building one right now -- I'll decide when it's done.)

Some other things to consider -- the V6 is built much better than the SR80. That's really one of the things I look for in a portable component (my PCDP and PMDP are both metal construction) and I doubt if its durability is surpassed by many cans. The SR80, on the other hand, is not so well built. It's mostly light plastic and the headband is a thin metal vinyl-covered strip. I really think it's squishable, another reason not to carry it around.

Both headphones are reasonably comfortable to me, though I have a small head (hat size 7 or 6-7/8 if stretched) and that may skew my input a bit. But anyway, the V6 will make the area around your ears that is in contact with the padding sweat after long use or in a warm place. That's not a big deal, though -- just wipe it off and go back to the tunes. The SR80, as with all the other Grado products, is said to be uncomfortable. I don't really think so ... it is less comfortable than the V6, but I wouldn't call it uncomfortable. I've worn both headphones with sunglasses with no problems.

The SR80 costs more than the V6 -- the former retails for about $95 and the latter for around $60. You'll probably be able to find some SR80 cans for around $70 or less used in the Head-Fi sale/trade forum, though. And Head-Fiers usually treat their equipment well, so you don't have to worry about getting screwed.

Let's see, what else -- oh, if you're considering the SR60, I don't really know what to say. I've never heard them. But the main difference, says people that know, is that the SR80 have noticably better bass. I consider the SR80 bass decent, not too shallow, but definitely not extremely forward, either. So if you want good bass, probably go for the SR80.

Anyway, I'd recommend the V6 just because you plan on using them portably. Otherwise, I'd recommend also picking up the SR80 for home use. If you do that, though, you run the risk of only using one pair of 'phones and letting the other sit if you decide the sound difference aren't noticable enough to you.

Hope that helped.

kerelybonto

 

[eric343]

I'll second the motion for the Grados, whether SR60 or SR80. They're both great headphones that will benefit from the amp you're going to order from JMT when you have the money.

ed: regarding comfort, the Grados are actually pretty comfy when using the comfy pads, although they're pretty warm.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

The grado s60's will sound bad for rap since there bass is pretty weak and they don't look very cool either. I think any of these would be good. My beyers and good for both rock and rap because they have bass you can feel:

v6
senn 280
beyer dt250

Biggie.

 

[5th_Ghostbuster]

Well, I'm exhausted from all the reading I've done here. I've been trying to learn more about high end headphones, and then make my decision as to what ones I want. I'm now willing to spend up to 200 US dollars...maybe more, but not if I can help it. I've also thought that I might pick up an amp. Now, I need something portable, so I found that HeadRoom has some nice priced Airheads (4.5 V), for 99 bucks when you buy em with a new set of phones from them. So here's what I'm thinking:
I'll get a pair of Senn HD 280 Pro's. Theyre 100 bucks, and from reading on this forum, they sound to be pretty good, and fit my needs. The Airhead amp sounds to be a decent fit too. But do I really need an amp?? If it makes that much of a difference, then I'll go for it. I know the Airhead is a cheapie...but it's pretty much the highest I can go right now.
Later down the road, in a couple months, I'd like to pick up that pair of Grado SR80s (try something different...get a feel for what else is out there), which too, should be okay with the Airhead amp, right?
BUT, what I'd really like are the Beyer DT 250-80s. Problem is, I don't think I have the extra 70 or so bucks they cost. AND, if I got them, wouldn't I want a better amp to go with them? Like a Total Airhead? If that's the case, then there's no way I could. The Beyers and a Total Airhead would be 170 more than the Senn HD 280 Pro's with a regula Airhead. And if by some chance I happen to come by some extra cash, should I be looking at the Senn HD 580s instead? But then again, I'd be better off with a better amp with those cans too.
Damn. I guess its either spend roughly 200 for a decent set of phones and a portable starter amp, or 400+ for good phones and a suitable amp for them.
Thoughts?