Looking for next pair of cans after the D7000 / HD650 / M50
May 22, 2010 at 1:21 PM Post #31 of 47
Good that you find your favourate. It seems that 3000+ usd isn't that much after all if you can reach the finish line of the headphone journey. I' ve spent much more than that for my dynamic system and still not quite there yet, not even close. At the end of the day, the only problem of doing this headphone journey is that I need to face the guilt when my wife checks my bank bill.
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May 22, 2010 at 1:25 PM Post #32 of 47
Thankyou very much Lunatique for such in insightful set of impressions.  I understand you view with the amplifiers and I do agree with you to some extent that a headphone has a certain characteristics that remains largely recognisable with different amplification.
 
I really enjoyed your comparison b/ween the D7000 and W1000X - I think I will invest in a set of W1000X's in the future.  I was somewhat moved with your audition of the O2's as I too had an audition and derived the same conclusion as you did in relation to the D7000.  Only to be ridiculed by a certain member with a very high postcount.  The O2's had remarkable bass presence a little less in quantity and a little less extended down low but with very good presence and articulation - coupled with a very transparent midrange and treble - far more transparent than D7000.  My conclusion was that of all the phone I HAVE EXPERIENCED the O2's and D7000's were the closest in sound signature - especially considering how focused the soundstage of the O2's are compared to the diffuse soundstage of the HD800 - better imaging than D7000's but the soundstage were about the same on both phones in terms of size.
 
I too have absolute no interest in the tipped up treble and diffuse soundstage with minimal bass presence of the HD800.  But there is one thing about the O2's that cannot seem to compete with dynamic phones and this is in the area of...dynamics.  The first thing I noticed with the O2's after hearing its amazing naturalness and transparency is the snare drum.  The O2s were unable to reproduce the true dynamics or impact of a snare drum.  In any real rock or jazz session, the snare drum always will emerge from the soundfield as a seperate rhythm driver along with the kick drum.  The O2's just were not capable of achieving this.  The only two headphones I HAVE HEARD that is able to achieve a correct snare dynamic, drive and impact belong to Sennheiser.  Those are the HD800 and HD650.
 
May 22, 2010 at 1:30 PM Post #34 of 47
I'm in the same situation as you.I got D7000 and I love em very much but I know I need some open headphone. So I'm going to get either T1 or HD800 but I'm not going to get rid of my d7000.(If I did I would miss the deep bass of d7000.) The only problem for me is I probably need a hugh funds to buy a new amp for those top headphones. My Earmax Silver Edition may not good enough for T1 and HD800. Anyway,I have a chance to try HD800 with my Earmax SE on Monday. Let's see.
 
May 22, 2010 at 1:39 PM Post #35 of 47


Quote:
 
I would recommend the Beyerdynamic T1s. Not as "artificial" as the HD800 but with good bass impact and quality. Midrange and highs are also very pleasing and at least to me are non-fatiguing.

Theh T1's frequency chart looks like the sub-bass is quite rolled-off? Have T1 owners checked to see whether the 30Hz region is still just as prominent as the rest of the bass frequencies? You can use this wepage to check:
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html
 
Quote:
P.S. Lunatique, what was the source that you listened with the staxes?


It was paired with a SRM717.
 
May 22, 2010 at 1:49 PM Post #36 of 47
As much as I enjoy the D7000s (I did buy them twice
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), the bass on the T1s is simply much better (although not as impactful). It is deeper, more controlled and better defined. I'm not sure what happened to the Headroom charts, but they did also show that the T1's bass did in fact go deeper with zero roll off at 30 Hz (unlike the Denons).
 
May 22, 2010 at 2:03 PM Post #37 of 47
The bass on the AKG K701 goes as low as the D7000 with no roll-off.  It is perhaps as articulate or more so than D7000.  However without the presence it does not serve as a reference according to my needs of a flat frequency response - I was pleasantly surprised with Tyll's latest measurements with several popular reference phones - the D7000's on paper were the most flattest in frequency response - a conclusion I had made in regards to the D7000 having never seen the measurements whatsoever.  Of course there are numerous headphones - a lot of open phones that are largely more transparent - that is however a different issue to flat frequency response altogether.  Also of fascination to me was the fact that the HD600, recently measured by Tyll, had measurably lower overall THD  than the HD800....the HD650 are supposedly lower than the HD600 yet again (yet to be confirmed).  Fascinating as that is how I've heard it all along.
 
 
May 22, 2010 at 3:40 PM Post #38 of 47

Quote:
The bass on the AKG K701 goes as low as the D7000 with no roll-off.  It is perhaps as articulate or more so than D7000.  However without the presence it does not serve as a reference according to my needs of a flat frequency response - I was pleasantly surprised with Tyll's latest measurements with several popular reference phones - the D7000's on paper were the most flattest in frequency response - a conclusion I had made in regards to the D7000 having never seen the measurements whatsoever.  Of course there are numerous headphones - a lot of open phones that are largely more transparent - that is however a different issue to flat frequency response altogether.  Also of fascination to me was the fact that the HD600, recently measured by Tyll, had measurably lower overall THD  than the HD800....the HD650 are supposedly lower than the HD600 yet again (yet to be confirmed).  Fascinating as that is how I've heard it all along.
 


Do you have a link to these new measurements?  Is this coming from Tyll's new measuring lab?
 
May 22, 2010 at 4:02 PM Post #39 of 47
lunatique,thanks for all your impressions I really enjoyed reaing them (and also learned new things at the same time).  I think you and i both love our bass authoritative.
good to hear that the M50 hold its own against much better and pricier headphones,I found their bass very pleasing.
 
May 22, 2010 at 11:22 PM Post #41 of 47

 
Quote:
  But there is one thing about the O2's that cannot seem to compete with dynamic phones and this is in the area of...dynamics.  The first thing I noticed with the O2's after hearing its amazing naturalness and transparency is the snare drum.  The O2s were unable to reproduce the true dynamics or impact of a snare drum.  In any real rock or jazz session, the snare drum always will emerge from the soundfield as a seperate rhythm driver along with the kick drum.  The O2's just were not capable of achieving this.  The only two headphones I HAVE HEARD that is able to achieve a correct snare dynamic, drive and impact belong to Sennheiser.  Those are the HD800 and HD650.


That's also one of the first things I noticed about the 007MKII. I have a song I always use to test if a headphone is sibilant/sharp/bright--it's got a sharp synth snare sound that on sibilant/bright headphones will be kind of painful to listen to, but on warmer/smoother headphones, will not be harsh or unpleasant at all. I totally trust the upper mids/lower treble region of my Klein + Hummel O 300D's (if you look at the frequency chart of the 300D's, you'd know what I mean--flat as a ruler), and on those monitors, the snare hits are just a tiny little bit sharp, but not irritating, so I know that is the standard in which I judge sibilance/brightness. On the 007MKII, those snare hits sound very warm and smooth and pleasant, and so far away from being sharp/harsh that I think it's actually a bit more dull than total accuracy in that frequency range (6Khz~8Khz). But it's so hard to complain about it because it sounds so damn good.
 
Quote:
The bass on the AKG K701 goes as low as the D7000 with no roll-off.  It is perhaps as articulate or more so than D7000.  However without the presence it does not serve as a reference according to my needs of a flat frequency response - I was pleasantly surprised with Tyll's latest measurements with several popular reference phones - the D7000's on paper were the most flattest in frequency response - a conclusion I had made in regards to the D7000 having never seen the measurements whatsoever.  Of course there are numerous headphones - a lot of open phones that are largely more transparent - that is however a different issue to flat frequency response altogether.  Also of fascination to me was the fact that the HD600, recently measured by Tyll, had measurably lower overall THD  than the HD800....the HD650 are supposedly lower than the HD600 yet again (yet to be confirmed).  Fascinating as that is how I've heard it all along.
 


That's what I thought too when I listened to the K701 recently in Hong Kong. The sub-bass is definitely there and well-extended, but the entire bass presence is just not full enough, making for an interesting but skewed sound. I don't know why so many people always bring up K701 as some kind of holy grail of accuracy and neutrality. I did like its sound and it wasn't nearly as bright as I thought it might be.
 
I also tried the K601, and I agree with most people who say it's a more balanced sound overall than the K701. Neither has the authoritative bass I'm looking for though, but otherwise I really liked them.
 
While testing those I also tested the Triple.fi 10 Pro, Etymotic ER-4P, and the UMX3. The Triple.fi sounds quite warm and doesn't have the kind of articulation/clarity/air I prefer (which is one of the things I don' t like about the W3). The UMX3 is more balanced than the W3, but still not there in terms of clarity and air. I really liked the ER-4P because it's got great clarity and articulation, but its bass is just not substantial enough, which is a shame, because it's not something you can just EQ with your MP3 player, since typical EQ's on players do not extend into the sub-bass region. Of all the IEM's I've tried to date, I think only the SE530 gets close to having a good bass extension without that bass bloat like so many IEM's (the W3 for example). I would love to try the JH13/16 one day since they're probably the only IEM's capable of that big full-size headphone sound.
 
Quote:
You might want to consider finding an O2 mk1 if you're looking for more extended bass


I'm always a bit nervous about discontinued models, since support will not be available and parts might not exist anymore if I need something fixed/replaced. How is the O2MK1 different from the 4070 in terms of extended bass?
 
May 23, 2010 at 1:08 AM Post #43 of 47
Thanks for the sharing.
 
I got a Symphony in my home 
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 and I can let you know pairing M-pro to Symphony is not a good pair, it cannot tell the power of Mpro, I just wonder why 音悅 will going to pair these together. 
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 The time I got my Mpro from there they gave me a much better combination and the power of Mpro is more poisonous, that made my paid for the headphone with only 10 mins listening.
 
This also show the importance of Amp to headphone, I understand what you experience is that sometime I also find out there are not much difference to my ED8 with some amp compare with just plug that into my old ipod. However when the pair is right it is heaven and hell (yes the hell, because the mismatch just totally blow up those lovely headphone)
 
I am wondering why that shop pair the new 007a (that is called 007 mk2 outside Japan right?) with a bit old 717.  You should try the 007a together with 727 or 007ta.  It is much better in IMO and I love 007a with 007ta more than with 727, the sound is richer and smoother.  As you living in Taiwan I think that will be the best for you to come Japan and get a pair, if you can find those in 2nd hand store the price is much cheaper too! I think around US$2600 will be OK.  Again, quite a lot of people suggested that the driver of Stax (that's mean Amp in dynamic headphone) is more important than those headphone, but that is something I am yet to discover by myself.
 
May 23, 2010 at 1:42 AM Post #45 of 47
Some quick comments:
 
Yes, once someone such as yourself has tried a pair of O2s, you're done for.
 
The HD-800s are awful, I own a pair.  They sound exactly like whatever you plug them in to. This is their greatness and their curse. Remember at the end you found the Symphony wasn't that much of an improvement?  I don't think Meier makes rubbish, but what was the source?  I do think you would have had the same result if you had chosen any of the new orthodynamics, as the people who did try them from a number of amps, such as Skylab, reported that they required one that was very powerful to get the full benefits.  The Omega IIs are reputedly similar, to the point that Kevin Gilmore built a copy of Stax's famous T2, a 200W beast of an amp with a $2000 parts total, purely to see how far he could take them.
 
By the way, most people buy their Stax, if not locally, on Yahoo Auctions Japan via Kuboten or another agent.  An O2 MK1/717 rig comes to about $2k shipped on a good day.
 

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