[jesusfr3ak4evr]

Interesting to hear your thoughts on the auditions. I have an HD800 SDR coming in the mail on Thursday, which I plan to use with the Gumby/Mjolnir2 and Telefunken ECC88 tubes. Excited to hear how they sound with quality tubes!

Last weekend I had the chance to audition the Meze Empyrean with velour pads and LCD-4 at the local Gramophone. Let me know if you'd like my thoughts/comparison to the Verite Closed monkeypod; I took notes as I was listening. Also, I have now heard the VCs with 3 sets of pads: Auteur/Universe leather and Eikon suede. Very different sound with the Eikon suede...

 

[FYFL]

Interesting to hear your thoughts on the auditions. I have an HD800 SDR coming in the mail on Thursday, which I plan to use with the Gumby/Mjolnir2 and Telefunken ECC88 tubes. Excited to hear how they sound with quality tubes!

Last weekend I had the chance to audition the Meze Empyrean with velour pads and LCD-4 at the local Gramophone. Let me know if you'd like my thoughts/comparison to the Verite Closed monkeypod; I took notes as I was listening. Also, I have now heard the VCs with 3 sets of pads: Auteur/Universe leather and Eikon suede. Very different sound with the Eikon suede...

What are your thought?
And like I’ve said, tube amp (quality tube amp and not some chi-fi wanna be) and HD800s were match made in heaven. To be honest, if I just audition HD800s with SS amp, I would probably crossed them out from my list rather quickly. It’s that much of a difference. No joke.

 

[jesusfr3ak4evr]

Meze Empyrean with velour pads compared to the Verite Closed:

• build quality is exquisite
• comfort is superb, TOTL
• very non-offensive sound that tries to do no wrong. It's like you are listening in the middle of the concert hall. The VC are like standing on stage or front row seats
• upper treble, like cymbals, sparkle with light airyness and pinpoint imaging. Also very fast driver. Decay of treble is quick; not a lot of reverb
• sound stage is large. Imaging within the stage is more precise than the VC with width and vertical accuracy
• dynamics are very noticeable. They seem greater in the Empy vs the VC
• the body of sound is very laid back, airy and almost thin vs the lush richness to the VC. Not as impactful
• electronic is not as interesting on the Empy compared to VC
• rock sounds great, such as Rush/Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/Van Halen
• jazz is smooth and sweet with great dynamics.
• very relaxing sound, especially for classical style music. Not as engaging for electronic. Definitely a headphone that one could listen to all day with no sense of fatigue. Would perform great while working because they are less engaging/distracting. The VC demand your attention; the Empy are chilling while pushing very high levels of detail
• Listening to Diana Krall: Vocals sound more mellow on the Empy, more balanced with the rest of the sound, only a slight emphasis over the background music. Never sibilant, bright or harsh.
• Listening to Amber Rubarth for acoustics + vocals: the instruments blend nicely but lose some detail. I think the mids are recessed somewhat. It's all there, but you have to listen more carefully vs the VCs making sure you don't miss anything. Again, like the experience of hearing a concert from 50 feet back vs being front row: it is the same detail but subdued.
• overall: more relaxing and laid back sound at the expense of being less engaging. On par with the VC for detail retrieval. Soundstage is bigger than VC. Imaging is more accurate. Similar bass extension. Comfort is superior to the VC, although I would still consider the VC to be very comfortable. The Empy look incredible, as does the VC, but very differently styled cans.

Equipment used: listened on 2 different amps streaming the Bluesound Node 2i: Sony TAZH1ES and McIntosh MHA150 (I preferred the McIntosh)


LCD-4 comparison with Empy and VC below:

• comfort is ~20% behind the stock VCs. These feel significantly heavier.
• the LCD-4 look nice with a solid build quality. I think the Empy and VC look more distinguished, though.
• I think the LCD-4 are more amp-picky and need lots of power. I just have the feeling that these could come alive better with more headroom
• The LCD-4 have the same detail and sparkle from the Meze but bring the sound forward, more similar to the VCs' upfront presentation.
• the VCs seem to bring out more microphonics
• airy sounding treble
• bass extension very good, on par with the VCs. Bass has similar impact.
• sound is more full, rich and lush vs the Empy--more like in the VC (but the VC is still superior)
• similar Soundstage to the Empy. Again, larger than the VC
• imaging not as 3d/holographic as VC
• again, driver is very quick at fast treble. No blur between details. Fast decay; sound is there, and instantly it is gone.
• not as much layering of sounds as in the VCs
• sounds feel less like they are streaming in, through and out of your head like in the VCs; rather, they are emanating outside the head from headphones as one would normally expect
• there seems to be a slight haze or thin veil in front of the sound
• in the song Speakers by Opiuo, there is a slightly sibilant, repetitive upper treble 'clap' that is noticeable at upper volume levels. It is somewhat less noticeable on the VCs, and the Meze Empy smooth/dull the sibilance completely
• overall: the LCD-4 are great headphones, but there is nothing preferable to me vs the Verite Closed. I would choose the VCs every day over the LCD-4, especially since the sound signature is relatively close. The Meze Empy, on the other hand, offer a different--more relaxed--sound to the VCs, that is more relaxing. The Empy will sound better on more gear vs the LCD-4 due to low impedance & high sensitivity. I would still rather listen to the VCs because of its fun and engaging sound signature, 3d soundstage, and layered sound.

NOTE: after hearing the VCs with Eikon suede pads, I no longer have any desire for the Meze Empyrean. The Eikon ZMF suede pads enhance comfort and provide a nice change of sound. Initial impressions after ~4 hours: the sound is more laid back, which can be nice since these headphones normally wallop with massive sound. These are more laid back and remind me of the sound from the Meze Empyrean, although VC lose some of their mid-bass response/slam/impact (can still hear & feel sub-bass pretty well). Sound stage seems larger with the suede pads, and imaging seems slightly more pinpoint. They sound a bit more like planar headphones.

NOTE2: ZMF Verite Closed with the Co-pilot headband are 95% as comfortable as the Meze Empyrean. With the stock pads, they're already comfortable enough for all-day listening; the co-pilot pads ($39.99) elevate them to the 2nd most comfortable headphones I have worn.

 

[ruinedx]

What are your thought?
And like I’ve said, tube amp (quality tube amp and not some chi-fi wanna be) and HD800s were match made in heaven. To be honest, if I just audition HD800s with SS amp, I would probably crossed them out from my list rather quickly. It’s that much of a difference. No joke.

This is true. The hd8xx series is dramatically improved with tube amp and *some* tube hybrids (I actually heard that mjolnir 2 is not best synergy for a tube hybrid due to treble being a bit grainy but haven't heard myself). There are only a few solid state amps that I'd even call listenable but even then not ideal

That being said when you dial in hd8xx with tubes in loop it sings reallllly nice

 

[FYFL]

Ok, let’s move on a bit. I didn’t mention music I listen to but in short, it was combination of classical, Jazz, Rock, strong vocal tracks, Chinese drums and Inception- Mombasa track for bass test.

Now...... let’s talk about HD800s and ADX5000 a bit.

HD800s is an interesting headphone in its own right.
Not sure where to start? Let’s start with what I did like first.
These are very technical headphone as far as treble is concerned. Imaging is very good. Soundstage is big, really big. Other headphones couldn’t quite match HD800s soundstage but some came rather close. Some closer then others. I’ve listen to them on SS iFi amp first and it was a trip. I mean, these headphone should never be paired with SS amp (maybe some class A amp could work IDK?) period. Treble with SS amp was just too much. Almost to the point of uncomfortable shrill. Keep in mind that I don’t mind slightly “hotter” treble or emphasize air. HD800s just didn’t sound right. Another quality that I found slightly locking was noticeable recession in midrange region. Especially noticeable with vocals as they seemed somewhat pulled back.
First impression was a mixed bag. I wanted to like them but they had issues that bother me and that included low frequency response. It had bass but it wasn’t as articulated and impactful as with some other headphones in the mix. At this point I started to realize what some reviewers and owners were referring to. But I didn’t throw the towel just yet. Side note, they’re very comfortable. Probably one of the best from this list.
Next, I run them with my tube amp and what a difference that made.
Shrillness was gone, midrange improves a bit but some recession was still there. But now, these cans could compete (not saying they were better) with almost anything on that table. Not sure if that recession in midrange can be addressed with tube rolling or not but It seems like the only way to compensate for that would be a slight EQ. I think even my Schiit Loki could fix it to a degree. But...... one of the biggest shortcomings for me, was bass. Maybe I got spoiled with my LCDX but I don’t think so. Even my Aeon2C are superior in this department and I’m not sure if I can live with such a compromise?
Overall, I liked them a lot and certainly more then so then HE1000s (not gonna even mention T1 3th gen.).
And if I didn’t hear othe headphones, ADX5000 and headphone “X”, I see myself buying HD800s and I’m sure that I would enjoy them quite a bit.

Next, ADX5000 and comparison to HD800s.

 

[FYFL]

Meze Empyrean with velour pads compared to the Verite Closed:

• build quality is exquisite
• comfort is superb, TOTL
• very non-offensive sound that tries to do no wrong. It's like you are listening in the middle of the concert hall. The VC are like standing on stage or front row seats
• upper treble, like cymbals, sparkle with light airyness and pinpoint imaging. Also very fast driver. Decay of treble is quick; not a lot of reverb
• sound stage is large. Imaging within the stage is more precise than the VC with width and vertical accuracy
• dynamics are very noticeable. They seem greater in the Empy vs the VC
• the body of sound is very laid back, airy and almost thin vs the lush richness to the VC. Not as impactful
• electronic is not as interesting on the Empy compared to VC
• rock sounds great, such as Rush/Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/Van Halen
• jazz is smooth and sweet with great dynamics.
• very relaxing sound, especially for classical style music. Not as engaging for electronic. Definitely a headphone that one could listen to all day with no sense of fatigue. Would perform great while working because they are less engaging/distracting. The VC demand your attention; the Empy are chilling while pushing very high levels of detail
• Listening to Diana Krall: Vocals sound more mellow on the Empy, more balanced with the rest of the sound, only a slight emphasis over the background music. Never sibilant, bright or harsh.
• Listening to Amber Rubarth for acoustics + vocals: the instruments blend nicely but lose some detail. I think the mids are recessed somewhat. It's all there, but you have to listen more carefully vs the VCs making sure you don't miss anything. Again, like the experience of hearing a concert from 50 feet back vs being front row: it is the same detail but subdued.
• overall: more relaxing and laid back sound at the expense of being less engaging. On par with the VC for detail retrieval. Soundstage is bigger than VC. Imaging is more accurate. Similar bass extension. Comfort is superior to the VC, although I would still consider the VC to be very comfortable. The Empy look incredible, as does the VC, but very differently styled cans.

Equipment used: listened on 2 different amps streaming the Bluesound Node 2i: Sony TAZH1ES and McIntosh MHA150 (I preferred the McIntosh)


LCD-4 comparison with Empy and VC below:

• comfort is ~20% behind the stock VCs. These feel significantly heavier.
• the LCD-4 look nice with a solid build quality. I think the Empy and VC look more distinguished, though.
• I think the LCD-4 are more amp-picky and need lots of power. I just have the feeling that these could come alive better with more headroom
• The LCD-4 have the same detail and sparkle from the Meze but bring the sound forward, more similar to the VCs' upfront presentation.
• the VCs seem to bring out more microphonics
• airy sounding treble
• bass extension very good, on par with the VCs. Bass has similar impact.
• sound is more full, rich and lush vs the Empy--more like in the VC (but the VC is still superior)
• similar Soundstage to the Empy. Again, larger than the VC
• imaging not as 3d/holographic as VC
• again, driver is very quick at fast treble. No blur between details. Fast decay; sound is there, and instantly it is gone.
• not as much layering of sounds as in the VCs
• sounds feel less like they are streaming in, through and out of your head like in the VCs; rather, they are emanating outside the head from headphones as one would normally expect
• there seems to be a slight haze or thin veil in front of the sound
• in the song Speakers by Opiuo, there is a slightly sibilant, repetitive upper treble 'clap' that is noticeable at upper volume levels. It is somewhat less noticeable on the VCs, and the Meze Empy smooth/dull the sibilance completely
• overall: the LCD-4 are great headphones, but there is nothing preferable to me vs the Verite Closed. I would choose the VCs every day over the LCD-4, especially since the sound signature is relatively close. The Meze Empy, on the other hand, offer a different--more relaxed--sound to the VCs, that is more relaxing. The Empy will sound better on more gear vs the LCD-4 due to low impedance & high sensitivity. I would still rather listen to the VCs because of its fun and engaging sound signature, 3d soundstage, and layered sound.

NOTE: after hearing the VCs with Eikon suede pads, I no longer have any desire for the Meze Empyrean. The Eikon ZMF suede pads enhance comfort and provide a nice change of sound. Initial impressions after ~4 hours: the sound is more laid back, which can be nice since these headphones normally wallop with massive sound. These are more laid back and remind me of the sound from the Meze Empyrean, although VC lose some of their mid-bass response/slam/impact (can still hear & feel sub-bass pretty well). Sound stage seems larger with the suede pads, and imaging seems slightly more pinpoint. They sound a bit more like planar headphones.

NOTE2: ZMF Verite Closed with the Co-pilot headband are 95% as comfortable as the Meze Empyrean. With the stock pads, they're already comfortable enough for all-day listening; the co-pilot pads ($39.99) elevate them to the 2nd most comfortable headphones I have worn.

Unfortunately I have not heard any of them. Also, I’m not sure if “darker” headphones are my cup of tea. It’s though tho. Headphones at certain price point aren't all that different as far as technicality is concern. I think it comes down to what house sound you prefer and which characteristics like soundstage and tonality are important to you. Thank you for very detailed description. I’m might be able to audition Meze. LCD-4....... well, they had them in the store but they’re just too heavy. I mean, really heavy. And I’m not sure I can justify 3K difference over LCDXs. Yes they’re a bit better, even crazier bass response. However, if I was about to spend 3.5-4K, I would look for something more comfortable and different house sound to add to my collection.

 

[Strat1117]

My vote goes to the LCD-X. Get the creator package For $1,200 and use the other $800 to buy music, single malt scotch and cigars. Not as expansive as the Sennheisers but won’t ever get shrill either. LCD-3 is more ear candy, but LCD-X is very neutral with real planar bass to boot.

 

[ruinedx]

Hd820 = less bright hd800s + notably more bass. But a little soundstage and a little mids accuracy is lost as the compromise

 

[FYFL]

My vote goes to the LCD-X. Get the creator package For $1,200 and use the other $800 to buy music. Not as expansive as the Sennheisers but won’t ever get shrill either. LCD-3 is more ear candy, but LCD-X is very neutral with real planar bass to boot.

I already own LCDXs. And they are fine headphones for sure. Non of headphones I have audition today had bass as impressive as LCDX.?And I did hoped that LCD-4 or 4z would give me a big step up in performance. Personally, I don’t think that’s the case. They’re better....... not significantly tho. Or should I say, not 3K better. Even at $2700 B-stock I am hesitant to pull the trigger. I think I’ll go with something “different” then slightly improved Audeze house sound.



Back to my store audition experience with ADX and HD800s.

ADX5000 surprised me quite a bit. For many reasoned but I’ll list just the most obvious characteristics that differentiate them from other headphones.

Ergonomics would be a good place to start my impressions with ADX5000. For me, these were one of the most if not the most comfortable headphones of the bunch. Maybe even more comfortable then my Aeon2C, which I couldn’t compare side by side. HD800s were just as comfortable by I felt that ADX5000 fit me slightly better. I can see myself listening to either one for hours without fatigue or discomfort.
Build- ....... that’s a though one. Both headphones feel a little “plasticky” in comparison to other headphones. Not sure how that corresponds to long term use but I’m pretty sure my LCDX will outlast both of them and than some. HD800s seems like a better, complexed build in comparison as ADX5000 are basically raw drivers, pads and headband. Not a whole lot of material went into this particular design. But it works and it does so without apology. I would give them both about the same score when it comes to build and comfort.

Performance of ADX5000.
This is going to make me look very foolish........ or maybe, it is just my taste and biases towards specific kind of presentation. Here it is.
ADX5000 seemed to me as the most balance performer of them all. And it seems like they won’t need help from EQ to “fix” some anomalies found in other designs.
Top is extended, airy, detailed, effortless. Vocals sounded right without bringing to much attention to itself. Not saying it was perfect but on par with the best of the bunch. Bass was satisfying, articulated and certainly better then HD800s. Soundstage was very nice, pretty wide but fell short in comparison to HD800s. But I think it’s better then my LCDX and much wider then Aeon2C. That’s for sure.
HD800s might be slightly more analytical, precise, pinpoint like accuracy. If I had to chose headphones strictly for gear evaluation, HD800s would be a great tool to use. String instrument on HDX5000 sounds quite fantastic. Plenty of body, decay, pitch, reverb. Strings just sound as natural as it can be at this price point. I don’t think my LCDXs can do strings like ADX5000 can..... I would have to have these two side by side to be sure.
Another thing about them, they’re not boring. Sound is lively, open, detailed and place you pretty close to the performer. Which I like.
HD800s have similar presentation but it’s somewhat disconnected. I think it’s because of very present treble and midrange/bass that seems to play catch up game. It’s hard to describe.
Some say that ADX5000 is a direct competitor to HD800(s) and they might be right. They’re more similar then different in their presentation and technicality. And if you look for that kind of presentation and sound, you should definitely listen to them both side by side.
Both sound fantastic with my tube amp. And I think you’re doing yourself disservice if you run either of these with SS amp.
ADX5000 sounded OK on SS. It wasn’t bad or anything like that but that airy treble and what seems like elevated energy (IDK 8-11K region) at certain treble frequencies were just a bit too aggressive for my taste. Same thing but even worst with HD800s.
With tube amp in the mix, both headphones turned 180 degrees, especially HD800s. Peaky treble was gone. Soundstage seemed to slightly wider/deeper. Strings and vocals gain a bit of extra body and “romance”. Tube amp is highly, highly recommended for these two headphones. And for HD800s, it’s a must.


So which one did I prefer of the two?

As controversial or shocking as it may seem, I would have to say ADX5000.

More later and reveal of headphone “X” that was thrown into the mix and kinda ruined my day.

 

[FYFL]

Hd820 = less bright hd800s + notably more bass. But a little soundstage and a little mids accuracy is lost as the compromise

If bass was on par (not necessary better) with other headphones in the line up and that so slight recession in the mids wasn’t there, HD800s would be extremely hard headphone to beat in that price range. Unfortunately, these relatively minute shortcomings were hard for me to overcome or ignore. But I see why so many people love their HD800(s).

 

[ruinedx]

My main issue with the HD800S is that it doesn't have enough bass to be an "all around performer" (i.e. one headphone for everything), and while it has less issues than the HD800 (want to really hear peaky treble? ), the HD800 is just *special* sounding on some content and the HD800S kind of killed that specialness by dropping the 6khz peak. Yeah, the HD800 is also painful on some content but its unbeatable as a specialist headphone for some content.

I think HD820 is an "all around" better performer across all genres than HD800S due to its better bass and less sharp treble while retaining most of HD800S soundstage - plus you get the bonus isolation of a closed back, while sounding like an open back with really huge soundstage. And when you want that big, epic soundstage to pull out an HD800 original - on a tube amp/hybrid of course. HD800S is somewhere in between the HD800 and HD820 but as a result is not as satisfying as either IMO.

 

[jesusfr3ak4evr]

My main issue with the HD800S is that it doesn't have enough bass to be an "all around performer" (i.e. one headphone for everything), and while it has less issues than the HD800 (want to really hear peaky treble? ), the HD800 is just *special* sounding on some content and the HD800S kind of killed that specialness by dropping the 6khz peak. Yeah, the HD800 is also painful on some content but its unbeatable as a specialist headphone for some content.

I think HD820 is an "all around" better performer across all genres than HD800S due to its better bass and less sharp treble while retaining most of HD800S soundstage - plus you get the bonus isolation of a closed back, while sounding like an open back with really huge soundstage. And when you want that big, epic soundstage to pull out an HD800 original - on a tube amp/hybrid of course. HD800S is somewhere in between the HD800 and HD820 but as a result is not as satisfying as either IMO.

How about the HD800 with SDR mod? Perhaps this is the best value?

 

[ruinedx]

How about the HD800 with SDR mod? Perhaps this is the best value?

It's the cheapest way to get hd800s-like sound, but the SDR mod also muddles the 6khz peak I was mentioning that gives the HD800 its "air" and it still has a low quantity of bass; if you are gonna do this you might as well get an HD800S because HD800 used aint cheap anymore. You can add a bit more bass with EQ but at the end of the day the HD800 just isn't best for bass heavy music.

I personally like the idea of stock HD820 + stock HD800 (non-S) and use on content that works best with each. Plus you also then get the functionality bonus of a closed back when you need it, which gives you added flexibility an open back doesn't have.

The main reason the HD800S was released is the original HD800 stock is literally painful on most solid state amplifiers and even some more neutral-grainy tube/hybrid amps, so HD800S gave some access to the HD800 sound on a wider range of equipment and to those who like a more laid back sound or don't like the idea of the headphone not working with some content. But the original HD800 stock is still the more impressive sounding headphone IMO, its just super duper picky on amp and source which makes it much more fickle and inaccessible - thus less desirable to many as it won't work in its stock form on all content... meaning you need another headphone to go with it.

 

[FYFL]

This is true. The hd8xx series is dramatically improved with tube amp and *some* tube hybrids (I actually heard that mjolnir 2 is not best synergy for a tube hybrid due to treble being a bit grainy but haven't heard myself). There are only a few solid state amps that I'd even call listenable but even then not ideal

That being said when you dial in hd8xx with tubes in loop it sings reallllly nice

Don't have experience with hybrids but at least with my amp, HD800s sounded significantly better. It wasn't slight or minute difference either. It was huge improvement over SS amp. From kinda annoying they turned into a fine performer. Just like that.

How about the HD800 with SDR mod? Perhaps this is the best value?

What value/price would that be exactly?

 

[ruinedx]

What value/price would that be exactly?

Altogether around $950 for the hd800 used + mod. It will give you the treble of hd800s + the bass of original hd800. I don't think you will like this tho as original hd800 bass is even lower quantity than hd800s (tho hd800 bass is slightly more accurate). It's a lot of money for no warranty when hd800s can be gotten for around 1525 from some places brand new with full warranty. Plus hd800s doesn't have paint chipping issue of hd800.

IMO main reason to buy original hd800 at this point is if you want original hd800 tuning. If u want the less airy treble of hd800s just better off buying hd800s, or hd820 if even hd800s is too airy