[DoNotBugMe]

Why do I need this?

I'm a college student who's been playing the piano for over 11 years now. I "quit" because I couldn't bring the normal piano to college for obvious reasons. I'm now thinking that one option that will allow me to continue is to buy a decent digital piano (and a good pair of headphones, but that's asked in the headphones forum already).

What I am looking for

I'm looking for something that's close to the real thing as is reasonably possible (I can be rather picky about this). This means that first and foremost, it's gotta feel good and secondly, it's gotta sound good. Having additional voices and features is a plus. I will be using the piano every day. Portability is not a concern as long as the piano can be taken apart (Yamaha Clavinova and Kawai allow for this).

What do you recommend?

- EDIT: SEE BELOW FOR NEW BUDGET AND REQUIREMENTS.

Thanks in advance for your replies and thanks to those you replied to my thread in the headphones forum. I'm posting this revised thread here to see if different people respond.

 

[zachary80]

Here is a place you can compare a few of them easier:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/cate...acturer&so=asc

 

[scrypt]

Since (i) digital audio is constantly improving and (ii) what feels best is not always what sounds best, I'd suggest considering this option: (a) an 88-key weighted keyboard controller (it doesn't have to be the newest model or even make sound of any kind -- it just has to feel really, really good), (b) an excellent sound library (I used to love EastWest's Bosendorfer 290 library, but I've now grown too jaded to be satisfied with its quality) and (c) a really fast computer (since you'll also be replacing your CPU regularly as technology improves). The problem with a digital piano is that you can't save the good part -- the feeling under your hands -- and ditch the digital sound behind it. Anything you pick will sound dated in a few scant years, which is why I use an ancient keyboard, a new computer and a regularly refreshed palette of sounds.

 

[Lindy]

I'd suggest posting your questions to this forum if you haven't seen it: PianoWorld

It's a great forum for everything piano-related. Lots of very knowledgeable people there with lots of opinions. I bought my Kawai RX-6 (7' acoustic grand) after lots of research and reading in that forum.

 

[jpelg]

For under $1k, the keyboard I like the best is the Casio PX100. To me it has the best hammer action, and sound combination of anything under the $1k mark. At <$500 it's a shocker, but true. Get the Casio, use the crap out of it, and not worry if it gets beat up, or (God forbid) stolen from your dormroom.

Between $1-2k, there are a bunch of non-descript keyboards from the usual brands (Kurzweil, Korg, Yamaha, Roland, etc.) that never made we want to spend the extra cash. There was always something I didn't like about each one of them.

I looked at the Studiologic midicontroller to use with a computer. But even the one that is supposed to have 'real hammer action' did not feel nearly as good as the cheap Casio.

If I were to go for big upgrade, I'd have to splurge on a Kawai MP9500, which is the model replacement for the MP9000 that I really liked (~$2500-3000), but I hear sales were discontinued in the US for some reason. You may be able to get these grey market, or maybe used on eBay.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg For under $1k, the keyboard I like the best is the Casio PX100. To me it has the best hammer action, and sound combination of anything under the $1k mark. At <$500 it's a shocker, but true. Get the Casio, use the crap out of it, and not worry if it gets beat up, or (God forbid) stolen from your dormroom.

I heartily second that. I've tried Kawais, Yamahas, Rolands and other brands for under roughly under $1000 but the PX100 topped them all as far as the hammer action was concerned. It doesn't have any many sound options, nor does it have a lid or a convincing pedal (only on or off) but for value, it's really unbeatable. I've been using mine for over a year and the only reason I can think of why it's so cheap is because of the Casio brand.

The Yamaha P90 I tried was probably a bit better than the Casio although not significantly. On the downside, you'll have to get a pair of stands and I think the P90 doesn't have any built-in speakers. It also has a sound problem when you use the piano 2. There is a certain note that doesn't sound right and Yamaha hasn't fixed it yet. Overall, it has a more solid built, better looks and perhaps a slightly better hammer action - but it's definately not worth twice the price of the PX100.

My budget was limited to $1000 so I didn't try the higher end models.

 

[White Fox]

I know the sound could be improved by using the MIDI connections on my Digital Piano (PX-300) and a computer with more sophisticated sound samples, but do you loose anything in terms of expressivity?

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg For under $1k, the keyboard I like the best is the Casio PX100. To me it has the best hammer action, and sound combination of anything under the $1k mark. At <$500 it's a shocker, but true. Get the Casio, use the crap out of it, and not worry if it gets beat up, or (God forbid) stolen from your dormroom.

Here's #3 for the casio px100. I posted a similar thread earlier this year, you can search back and you should find it, I got a couple of recommendations for this player and I love it for the exact same reasons stated above. I didn't get a stand with it and am still looking for one so that seems like a great deal. It feels great, sounds great, is simple to use and not too many options which I prefered, I am a choral conductor that needed something straightforward that felt and sounded as close to the real thing of a grand piano as possible and I feel its killer for the price. Its got a nice internal headamp too that can power the senns and sounds great with grados or senns so that's a plus too

 

[AdamP88]

I was in a similar situation as you - except I was done with college but couldn't afford to bring a real piano into my home - or at least a piano with the characteristics I'd want. I would see if you have any local dealers that carry the Viscount line. They use the Yamaha sound module as a base, but use their own but have improved it with pedal effects and harmonics (subtle, but it definitely adds to the realism), plus they use their own hammer action which I felt was much, much better than Yamaha, Roland, Kawaii and Kurzweil.

I own the Viscount Andante (~$1500) and it has been really great. As far as digital goes, it's pretty minimalistic - not a lot of extra bells and whistles - but as a substitute piano it does surprisingly well - I really have no complaints with it. It sounds very good for digital and the action, while not perfect (I've yet to find a digital piano with action that equalled that of a good acoustic grand), is excellent and suits my needs quite well. Steinway needs to license their action out to a digital maker, then I'd be in heaven.

Though I'm sure in the 3 1/2 years since I bought it there's something out that sounds far, far better.

 

[DoNotBugMe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg I'd have to splurge on a Kawai MP9500, which is the model replacement for the MP9000 that I really liked (~$2500-3000), but I hear sales were discontinued in the US for some reason. You may be able to get these grey market, or maybe used on eBay.

Kawai just released the MP4 ($1199) and the MP8 ($1999) which replace the MP9000 and MP9500 respectively. The MP8 has the same wonderful wooden keys as the 9500, so the action will be top notch. If the sound portion matches up (a weak point for the MP9500 IMO), I could easily settle for it.

 

[urielis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrypt Since (i) digital audio is constantly improving and (ii) what feels best is not always what sounds best, I'd suggest considering this option: (a) an 88-key weighted keyboard controller (it doesn't have to be the newest model or even make sound of any kind -- it just has to feel really, really good), (b) an excellent sound library (I used to love EastWest's Bosendorfer 290 library, but I've now grown too jaded to be satisfied with its quality) and (c) a really fast computer (since you'll also be replacing your CPU regularly as technology improves). The problem with a digital piano is that you can't save the good part -- the feeling under your hands -- and ditch the digital sound behind it. Anything you pick will sound dated in a few scant years, which is why I use an ancient keyboard, a new computer and a regularly refreshed palette of sounds.

Sorry to threadjack a little, but this sounds like something I'd love to try out - I'm at college stuck in a teeny tiny apartment too. Would you mind feeding us a few more details?

- What is a decent keyboard controller, and how much does one go for? I looked online and found prices between $200 and $3000, so I'm not sure what to expect at the shops.
- What's a good sound library nowadays? The Bosendorfer 290 library you mentioned does sound okay to my ears, so I'm wondering what improvements new tech has brought.
- What software are you using to make it playable like a normal piano?

Thanks in advance! This looks like an great solution, good keyboards/synths over here in Oz are terrible value.

 

[ADS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoNotBugMe Why do I need this? I'm a college student who's been playing the piano for over 11 years now. I "quit" because I couldn't bring the normal piano to college for obvious reasons. I'm now thinking that one option that will allow me to continue is to buy a decent digital piano (and a good pair of headphones, but that's asked in the headphones forum already). What I am looking for I'm looking for something that's close to the real thing as is reasonably possible (I can be rather picky about this). This means that first and foremost, it's gotta feel good and secondly, it's gotta sound good. Having additional voices and features is a plus (composition on the computer is fun!), but isn't necessary. I will be using the piano regularly (as in every day). It needs to be portable as in, not fixed permanently to a stand. I haven't had the chance (yet) to try any of these out. I'm simply generating a list, so that I know what to try out when I do go to the store. What do you recommend? My budget for the piano is up to $2000 but preferably closer to the $1000 point. I have a slight bias towards Yamaha since we do own a (not portable) Clavinova at home in addition to a standard acoustic piano. Here's what I've considered so far. Casio PX100 ($499) - Costco sells this with the stand. Yamaha P90/P120 ($999/$1099) - Very popular mid-range sets. Yamaha P250 ($1700) - Step up model with better sound quality. Roland RD700SX ($1900) - Similar to P250. Thanks in advance for your replies and thanks to those you replied to my thread in the headphones forum. I'm posting this revised thread here to see if different people respond.

I was in the EXACT same situation as you about a year ago. I had stopped playing when I hit college, since any piano on campus worth playing was reserved for music students. I bought the Kawai ES-5 and am very happy with it. It sounds very good, both through headphones and the integrated speakers and subwoofer. It's in the upper range of the prices you listed above, but I think it's well worth it. The only problem I have is that the key action is a little light for my taste, but that's true of almost all digital pianos I tried, and it seemed the most realistic, even though it was quite light.

About $1500:
http://www.music123.com/Kawai-ES5-Di...-i129097.music

Looks pretty good too!

*EDIT*

One thing I forgot to mention. It can easily be attached/detached from its stand for portability, and although you lose the subwoofer that's in the base of the unit, it still sounds decent. If you want to lose the stand altogether, and a couple of voices (none of which I use anyway), you can purchase the ES-3 instead. Same action and everything, just no base. It's also quite a bit cheaper.

http://www.pianodepot.com/product-fr...asso?pr=027711

 

[DoNotBugMe]

Thanks to everybody for your responses. I went to several places today and was in for a bit of a shocker as it turns out that my expectations were a little too high. I tried high end models like Roland's HP-107 and found the action to be far too light (maybe I'm too accustomed to my acoustic and my teacher's Steinway?). The rest of the models which I have now taken off my list were similar or had other flaws (bad sound quality). The only action that I actually enjoyed and liked (I still haven't had a chance to try out the Kawai models) was on a Yamaha, and it turned out to have wooden keys.

Because of this and because this is now more of longer term solution rather than a temporary one, I've raised my budget to the $3000-$4000 range and have changed the form factor from portable to full-size/cabinet. The only requirement is that it needs to be able to be dismantled, so that leaves the Clavinova's and the Kawai's. For those balking at the sharp budget increase, I rather spend twice the money to get something I like rather than throw away 1-2 grand on something I won't enjoy (which defeats the original intent!).

With that, this is my updated list. Has anybody here looked at or owned models in this price/feature range?

Yamaha CLP-270 ($3299)
I'm leaning towards this model since it has everything I want at the lowest price. But I do need to try it out in person once it's back in stock. It was sold out when I visited the store.

Yamaha CLP-280 ($4299)
I really liked the CVP 309's keyboard (the wooden one mentioned above) which is the same one. This would be my dream digital piano.

Kawai CA-9 ($3499)
This one also has wooden keys. Didn't get to try it yet though. It's like the keyboard on the 9500/MP8 except better. And it has significantly better sound (than the 9500/MP8) even through the MP3's provided, so I can imagine that with good headphones and the real thing, the difference would be even more pronounced.

 

[AdamP88]

See if you have any Viscount dealers in the area. I had the same problem as you - wasn't satisfied with the touch of most makes. I doubt you'll ever find anything that satisfies like a Steinway unless it's a Steinway, but the touch on my Viscount was the best out of the brands I've tried. Roland had by far the worst/lightest touch out of any of them, Yamaha's felt a little thick, Kawai felt pretty good but still a little heavy. The Viscount came closest to acoustic action for me - The keys have excellent weight but they don't feel heavy like Yammies (or at least the ones I tried 4 years ago). It's very responsive.

This would fit in your budget nicely. Not as many features as the Clavinovas, but should have excellent sound and touch.

 

[DoNotBugMe]

They look nice (the model you showed and the step up one which costs $3000), but I don't think they're in the area. The wooden keys definitely look tempting...