I am new to the idea of headphones - have bought a low end nuForce micro icon headphone amp and dac. Now the upgrade monster has woken up and I am looking to upgrade to something better.
An amp and a dac plus new headphones are being planned on. I am looking for a USB DAC recommendation, all the listening will be done from computer based files (FLAC, high bit rate MP3s and some streaming music).
Assuming the DAC is also a combo with an amp the budget can go up to 900 or even a 1000 USD.
My friend and I just did a fun comparison on just this subject.
Schiit Bifrost VS Peachtree Dac-iT VS HRT Music Streamer II
Our main headphones were the AKG K701's and the Stax SR-507
For amplification The 701 used a Schiit Magni and we also used a Maxed out Headroom desktop amp with the Desktop power supply. The Stax used a recently re-capped SRM-1/MK2.
First and I feel importantly the difference between the $100 Magni and the $1500 Headroom setup was noticeable but not huge. I stress this. It made a difference but not a big one.
The Stax setup obliterated the K701 on either amp.
The Music Streamer II is a massive step up from normal computer audio. ringing in at $150 it is not in the same price category as the $450 Dac-iT and Bifrost and it sounded like we had stuck cotton in our ears after we listened to the Better DACs.
Interestingly we did a cross comparison. My Dac-iT paired with his Magni and K701 against his Music Streamer and My Stax. They both had their strengths and weaknesses and it was difficult to pick a winner. In the end we decided the Stax rig had the edge but given the cost differential the Dac-iT and K701 were the real winners of the evening.
We compared the Bifrost against the Dac-iT on both systems and our conclusions were thus... The Bifrost had a fuller bass but was otherwise unable to compete with the Dac-iT on sound-stage, clarity, and noteably vocal reproduction. We both strongly preferred the Dac-iT and he ordered one the same evening.
We also incidentally used both the TeraDak U9VA linear power supply and the standard wall wart with the Dac-iT. the linear psu makes a minor difference but its also cheap at $43 so its worth considering.
Our takeaways were this...
1.Your Dac matters a lot
2. Your headphones are very important
3. Cables... I didn't mention this but we did some swapping and get something decent but don't go overboard. It didn't matter THAT much.
4. Amp. It made more difference than the cables but it was minor compared to even the differences we were hearing when comparing the similarly priced Dac-iT and Bifrost. Keep in mind we were going so far as to compare amps that had no business compared so sayeth their price tags.
5. Upgraded PSU. You can hear the difference but its somewhere between the cables and the AMP in terms of differences. At least its cheap.
If I had to do this all over again and I had about $1,000 to do it with I would...
1. Buy an SRS-2170 amp/headphone combo from price Japan ($570)
2. Buy a Peachtree Dac-iT ($450)
3. find a half decent RCA cable($40-60)
4. Connect the Dac-iT using optical if I could. ($20-40)
5. Somehow with the money I didn't have replace the Stax wall wart with something of appropriate voltage($50)
6. Get the U9VA Linear PSU for the Dac-iT($43)
Of course that's me and I like detailed ostensibly neutral playback.
Thanks [size=18.18181800842285px]spaceace1014[/size]! I am wondering - how much tax did you pay for the package upon receipt? I will be in the USA for a few days in May and thought about buying them while. Thought about getting the 3170 package (do you know what the differences are?).
How did you replace the STAX wall-wart? Is it difficult to get a replacement wall-wart?
How do you think the DAC-IT would compare to the Rega DAC or the PS DAC?
Thanks [size=18.18181800842285px]spaceace1014[/size]! I am wondering - how much tax did you pay for the package upon receipt? I will be in the USA for a few days in May and thought about buying them while. Thought about getting the 3170 package (do you know what the differences are?).
How did you replace the STAX wall-wart? Is it difficult to get a replacement wall-wart?
How do you think the DAC-IT would compare to the Rega DAC or the PS DAC?
1.I don't recall paying any tax on the international package.
2.I own the top of the range lambda the SR-507's and I'm using a series "A" SRM-1/MK2 which might be up to 31 years old but the amp is supposed to compare well even now. I've never seen let alone used another Stax setup. Having said that here's what little I know. The variences in the lambda line of headphones are not that great. They each step up is a step up but its small and even the lowly 207 will wipe out most other headphones with ease... from what I've read the 207 is a 9 to the 507's 10 you gain some niceties like lambskin leather and a new style headband with the 507 that are part of its cost. Feel free to correct me if you've heard differently. The SRM-252s is a different story. That's the little amp that comes in the 2170 package. Its supposed to be lackluster but again based on the listening impressions above I'd rather have a better DAC. The 3170 comes with a better pair of lambda's(307) and with the supposedly very nice SRM-323s amp which I gather is the great grand child of my SRM-1/MK2. I hope that answers your question there.
3.Just look at the output voltage and amperage on the wall adapter that comes with the Stax unit and google it to find a similar one that takes whatever your input voltage is.... Japan is 100v the United States is 120v. you could also get a voltage transformer at online. 120v -> 100v or whatever you need. supposedly most Japanese electronics will work on our voltages without a step-down transformer but its extremely hard on them so do so at your own risk. Someone has found an appropriate wall wart on these forums if you get a SR-252s just do a search. You will need a step-down transformer if you get the 323s as its power supply is internal.
4.I like to imagine that it would be a clear step up to the Rega Dac or the PS Audio NuWave but I don't know. I haven't heard them. Personally I would love to have a Metrum Octave 2 in the $1000 range. I've heard amazing things about it.
For more information on Stax head over to Summit-fi. They know more than I do. Many of them have heard several generations and levels.
Also... Consider where this hobby is headed. I would think about getting a 507 and 323s with a lesser DAC like the Music Streamer II if you think you might get pulled in. The 507 leaves you nowhere to go except to the ultra expensive Sr-007 or the Sr-009 and the 323s despite its somewhat low position in the Stax lineup is supposed to be their current best out of the box amp with the others needing sometimes extensive modding so you also really have nowhere to go that's a big step up short of the HeadAmp BHSE or the Cavali Liquid Lighting both ringing in at around $5k. You won't spend a fortune upgrading all the parts of your setup if you've already got the best you'll be able to reasonably afford. You won't wonder... What If I had just spent a little more for that slightly better version... You'll have that slightly better version and the next step is a huge step cost wise. You'll still get to have the fun of upgrading your DAC. Just a thought.
I was begining to be tempted by a pair of Denon AH-D7000 and HifiMan HE-500 with a Lyr and Gungnir. Now I will rethink my strategy.
I think my hobby would take me more in the direction of having a solid equipment base and some headphones to play around with but I guess we'll have to see. I may be satisfied with a pair of SR-507s driven by a STAX amplifier and a good DAC - I was thinking of the KingRex UD384.
Sorry for the late reply, Only going to the USA in a week so nothing bought so far.
I am very intetested in the HifiMan HE-500 with the Lyr and Bifrost. Also may complement with a pair of dynamic headphones such as the Beyerdynamic T90 or the Grado RS1i.
What would you recommend? It is a bit tight for me with PriceJapan sending the 507 over. I do have a brother who lives in the USA so I may be tempted later this year.
My friend and I just did a fun comparison on just this subject.
Schiit Bifrost VS Peachtree Dac-iT VS HRT Music Streamer II
Our main headphones were the AKG K701's and the Stax SR-507
For amplification The 701 used a Schiit Magni and we also used a Maxed out Headroom desktop amp with the Desktop power supply. The Stax used a recently re-capped SRM-1/MK2.
First and I feel importantly the difference between the $100 Magni and the $1500 Headroom setup was noticeable but not huge. I stress this. It made a difference but not a big one.
The Stax setup obliterated the K701 on either amp.
The Music Streamer II is a massive step up from normal computer audio. ringing in at $150 it is not in the same price category as the $450 Dac-iT and Bifrost and it sounded like we had stuck cotton in our ears after we listened to the Better DACs.
Interestingly we did a cross comparison. My Dac-iT paired with his Magni and K701 against his Music Streamer and My Stax. They both had their strengths and weaknesses and it was difficult to pick a winner. In the end we decided the Stax rig had the edge but given the cost differential the Dac-iT and K701 were the real winners of the evening.
We compared the Bifrost against the Dac-iT on both systems and our conclusions were thus... The Bifrost had a fuller bass but was otherwise unable to compete with the Dac-iT on sound-stage, clarity, and noteably vocal reproduction. We both strongly preferred the Dac-iT and he ordered one the same evening.
We also incidentally used both the TeraDak U9VA linear power supply and the standard wall wart with the Dac-iT. the linear psu makes a minor difference but its also cheap at $43 so its worth considering.
Our takeaways were this...
1.Your Dac matters a lot
2. Your headphones are very important
3. Cables... I didn't mention this but we did some swapping and get something decent but don't go overboard. It didn't matter THAT much.
4. Amp. It made more difference than the cables but it was minor compared to even the differences we were hearing when comparing the similarly priced Dac-iT and Bifrost. Keep in mind we were going so far as to compare amps that had no business compared so sayeth their price tags.
5. Upgraded PSU. You can hear the difference but its somewhere between the cables and the AMP in terms of differences. At least its cheap.
If I had to do this all over again and I had about $1,000 to do it with I would...
1. Buy an SRS-2170 amp/headphone combo from price Japan ($570)
2. Buy a Peachtree Dac-iT ($450)
3. find a half decent RCA cable($40-60)
4. Connect the Dac-iT using optical if I could. ($20-40)
5. Somehow with the money I didn't have replace the Stax wall wart with something of appropriate voltage($50)
6. Get the U9VA Linear PSU for the Dac-iT($43)
Of course that's me and I like detailed ostensibly neutral playback.
in the last part where you said things you would do different on a budget of 1000$, in #6 where you say "Get the U9VA Linear PSU for the Dac-iT($43)" would it be necessary to still use if I used the toslink for the music from my laptop to the Dac-it and use the included 9vDc/1A on the back for the Dac-it the plugs into the wall? Im a noobie trying to figure all this out. I see u listed #4 and #6 in that part.
Hi,
So I'm the aforementioned friend If I recall correctly, most of our testing was done over optical because we quickly realized that it made a HUGE difference over USB. Granted, this was with the old Dacit (not the dacit x that has a better USB implementation). So yes, the PSU upgrade does make a difference over to slink, BUT it was extremely minor. I'd argue that the PSU was probably the least important upgrade, but also the cheapest.
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If I recall correctly, most of our testing was done over optical because we quickly realized that it made a HUGE difference over USB. Granted, this was with the old Dacit (not the dacit x that has a better USB implementation). So yes, the PSU upgrade does make a difference over to slink, BUT it was extremely minor. I'd argue that the PSU was probably the least important upgrade, but also the cheapest.