Logitech's Squeezebox Touch - opinions sought on quality

[IPodPJ]

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Hi IPodPJ,
You seem to know a bit about these things ...
 
What would upgrading the caps do for the coax out?
(I already ordered a clock upgrade-kit.)

You want to replace them with lower impedance caps.  They will improve the performance.
 
 
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Any recommendation on power supplies?  Welborne Labs is having a sale...

I'm using an Audio-gd power supply in my Transporter.  For the Touch obviously you need an external.  I had a CIAudio power supply back when I had my Duet and it was pretty good, but there is probably better.  I haven't used the Welborne so I can't comment.  I will tell you though that I have noticed a difference with various DC power cables just as I do with AC power cords.  That's something you can also experiment with.
 

 

[LarsHP]

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You want to replace them with lower impedance caps.  They will improve the performance.
 
 

Can you tell me HOW it will improve? (I am not trying to be tricky - just trying to understand.)
I am not a hardware engineer, and in theory I understand, that better components should or could matter, but in terms of the digital domain, I am uncertain of in what way it may improve the digital signal when (or if) I replace caps.
 

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Can you tell me HOW it will improve? (I am not trying to be tricky - just trying to understand.)
I am not a hardware engineer, and in theory I understand, that better components should or could matter, but in terms of the digital domain, I am uncertain of in what way it may improve the digital signal when (or if) I replace caps.
 

 
I am not an engineer either, but this page may help answer that:
 
http://asi-tek.com/whymod.html
 

 

[shingo43]

I received my SBT last friday and I am very happy with it except the sound quality, yes the on board DAC is better than the computer sound card but it is not audiophile grade at least I think so. Maybe I prefer warm sound. Can any one recommend a good dac for me for under $1000? , currently what on my list is DAC1, DA10, NFB-3. PS AUDIO digital link III. Has any one have any experience with any of those? or any other suggestions? thanks

 

[dura]

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I received my SBT last friday and I am very happy with it except the sound quality, yes the on board DAC is better than the computer sound card but it is not audiophile grade at least I think so. Maybe I prefer warm sound. Can any one recommend a good dac for me for under $1000? , currently what on my list is DAC1, DA10, NFB-3. PS AUDIO digital link III. Has any one have any experience with any of those? or any other suggestions? thanks

See my sign; I've tried different dac's with the Squeezebox Touch (Meier Stagedac, MHDT Havana, Audio-GD Ref5DSP) but I greatly prefer my current Rega DAC. Not really warm, as in rolled-off treble, undamped bass and soft dynamics but fullsounding and very musical.

 

[LarsHP]

Quote:

Quote:
 
I am not an engineer either, but this page may help answer that:
 
http://asi-tek.com/whymod.html
 

Hmmm. Here they say:
"[size=x-small]Exchanging stock electrolytic capacitors for our ultra low impedance types in the digital or
analog  power supplys will markedly improve the sound quality in terms of greatly improved
dynamics, transparency, detail, tonal purity, depth, definition and a quieter background." [/size]
Fine, but I don't know if the capacitors in the SBT are electrolytics, which are known to be inferior to quality capacitors.
 
It was interesting however to find, that the Dexa clock they apply in their mods is made by the Danish audio designer Lars Clausen (www.NewClassD.com) - the original founder of LC Audio - whose pre-amp and power-amp I still have in my living room. That Neutron Star clock is really something: +/- 0.2 ppm! That's the lowest I have ever seen - cost no object. In fact, it's one fifth of the lowest I have seen!
 

 
 

 

[IPodPJ]

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It was interesting however to find, that the Dexa clock they apply in their mods is made by the Danish audio designer Lars Clausen (www.NewClassD.com) - the original founder of LC Audio - whose pre-amp and power-amp I still have in my living room. That Neutron Star clock is really something: +/- 0.2 ppm! That's the lowest I have ever seen - cost no object. In fact, it's one fifth of the lowest I have seen!

The Dexa Neutron Star is by far the best clock available on the market, and will outperform very expensive master word clocks made by companies like Esoteric.  I might eventually replace the Audio-gd clocks in my Transporter (<1ps, 1-2ppm deviation per year) with a Neutron Star, but so far I've found no need to as they syngergize very well with the Reference 7.  You'd also be best feeding it with a battery supply if you really want to squeeze every ounce of performance out of it.
 

 

[shingo43]

I actually quite interested in the audio-gd products, what you don't like about them? have compared rega with dac1?
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See my sign; I've tried different dac's with the Squeezebox Touch (Meier Stagedac, MHDT Havana, Audio-GD Ref5DSP) but I greatly prefer my current Rega DAC. Not really warm, as in rolled-off treble, undamped bass and soft dynamics but fullsounding and very musical.

 

 

[dura]

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I actually quite interested in the audio-gd products, what you don't like about them? have compared rega with dac1?


 

I did not say I didn't like Audio-GD, the REF5 was a very good dac, but the Rega just sound so much more musical, it makes every digital source I mentioned sound mechanical. I did not try the Ref1 if that is what you mean by dac1.
 

 

[gilbodavid]

Hello all. The Touch's DAC is far better than people think IMO. It sounded rubbish for the 1st 50-100 hrs then suddenly transformed into something rather good, with excellent depth and width of stage, stunning imaging, and well into the £1000+ cd player league. I wonder if anyone has bothered to run in the analogue section sufficiently? I'm amazed. And relieved, cos i don't need a a new DAC as I at first thought.
 
Furthermore John Swenson has confirmed that the output caps were a design fault, and can be bypassed by simply soldering across the terminals, giving  a significant jump in performance. He also says that physically disabling the screen will take the the Touch's analogue out up hugely. I am wireless, so ethernetting it would help. The software mods can also help, as v]can a linear power supply (some say this is subtle). I would hazard a guess that a run-in, modded analogue section shows that the internal DAC is as John describes it, very very good indeed! (He uses high end external DACs too!).
 
I am playing it in £5000 of valve pre power into Lowther DX2 horns, and in my other system through a superb Sugden A21 (selling on ebay now boohoo) into electrostatics, so my systems are very very good.
 
Also, I run the touch wirelessly without a computer with an attached usb-powered external hard drive. I have no problems and it runs really fast, and is a joy to skip btween songs (all my hard drive tracks are WAV files).
 
The radio sound quality at 320kb is extremely good also. Not really up to my Sansui TU717 on fm, which is one of the best tuners ever made (I've owned 30 of the top tuners) but truly amazing, with room for improvement with hardware and software mods!
 
All in all

 

[Equus]

I've listened to the analog outs on my SB Touch a bit, and unmodded they aren't bad.  It's a fairly lively presentation and definitely a good value for the money, IMO.  Interesting that you're having such a good time with the external HDD.  Maybe there's a difference in formatting or something, or maybe disabling some of the features would help.  The last time I tried it was before I mucked with the settings a lot, and it was really sluggish.  Not that it matters too much, because I run it via wireless most times unless I'm taking it to a meet.

 

[goodvibes]

I'll take a Sonos at standard def before the touch with HiDef. Analog or dig out. Bought a touch to see what it had to offer and besides features, I just didn't care for it. The better the associated kit, the more aware of it I was. Wasn't expecting HiEnd but I was expecting something a bit more natural sounding. Personal opinion that it's cold and I wont get into a bits are bits discussion. Just thought I'd add my thoughts.

 

[Equus]

Contrasting opinion is still appreciated.  My former boss was all about the Sonos.  I haven't had a chance to listen to one, and I really don't think I need "warmer" on my rig, but I might give it a try sometime.

 

[dura]

I briefly tried an USB-HD on my Touch, but the sound is clearly worse compared to the Touch connected through wifi/ethernet. Even when only using digital out. And it was indeed sluggish.
But through wifi into my Rega DAC (see my sign for my system) the Touch sounds very very satisfying.

 

[goodvibes]

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Contrasting opinion is still appreciated.  My former boss was all about the Sonos.  I haven't had a chance to listen to one, and I really don't think I need "warmer" on my rig, but I might give it a try sometime.

Thanks and I'm in no way implying that Sonos is HiEnd or what I would use for critical listening. I agree with Dura about the SB USB vs ethernet. Sonos isn't really a warmed up sound and it's dig out also has some jitter. Also for from perfect but it's apparently balanced it's parameters nicely to get a good result. Very techie company. The factory reps are all engineers and not from sales backgrounds..