[matthew23]

You have several ways you could hook it up.

If you want to listen to the Little Dot as a pre-amp (really a "tube buffer because you are still controlling, switching through the Outlaw) your receiver can do this very well using the "External Processor" Out and In. The user guide says the Processor Out remains at full level independent of the Outlaws volume control. Perfect. Hook the Outlaw Processor OUT to the LD Input, and the LD output to the Processor IN. Your Outlaw will work as normal on your speakers, but when you want to hear the effect of your tube buffer on the speakers, you just hit the "External Loop" button on the Outlaw. Keep the volume on the LD low when you start to try this until you figure out where it should be to just match the volume of the system when the loop is not being used.

If you decide just to use your Outlaw to send sources to The Little Dot, a different, simple safe way to do it is to hook the Input on the Little Dot to the "REC OUT" on the back of the Outlaw. This is nice because it does not change anything in the way you use the system now. The volume control/bass/treble etc of the Outlaw will not effect the Little Dot.... You control the Little Dot just as normal as well. You do NOT have the option of listening to the tube pre-amp through your speakers this way.


Others are a lot more experience than I am on this question, but I understand that there are not many choices for changing the power tubes...most people just change the signal tubes and the ones you got should work great with the stock ones.

Wow, thank you so much! That makes total sense. Just a few more questions - If I use the External Processor out and in, will the Little Dot still work as a headphone amp at the same time (do I just plug my headphones into the Little Dot)? Also, if it is hooked up to the External Processor, does the Little Dot take over all volume controls when the External Loop button is pressed? Do I have to worry about damaging the receiver or Little Dot with overload or gain issues?

 

[Ggroch]

.....If I use the External Processor out and in, will the Little Dot still work as a headphone amp at the same time (do I just plug my headphones into the Little Dot)? Also, if it is hooked up to the External Processor, does the Little Dot take over all volume controls when the External Loop button is pressed? Do I have to worry about damaging the receiver or Little Dot with overload or gain issues?

1. I have an LD III, and on it the pre-outs stay on all the time whether you have headphones plugged in or not...they do not shut off when you plug in headphones. And the volume knob on the LD controls its Pre-outs too. So, when you have the external loop button pressed on the Outlaw you will have 2 volume controls for your speakers, both the receivers and the LD. (the Outlaw volume control will not effect Headphones plugged into the LD), So you need to be careful when learning what levels to set when you start, and careful when you are switching between headphones and speakers...just get used to turning the volume on the LD & Outlaw down when you switch til you have it figured out.

What I am not certain of is whether the External OUT on the Outlaw has a signal all the time, even when the loop is not chosen. I think it probably does, which is what you want. So the LD will still play your Outlaw sources for headphones even when you are not using speaker loop button.

.....edit, cancel my 2nd suggestion, would not work.

 

[matthew23]

This is good stuff! Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Why wouldn’t the 2nd suggestion work? Does the loop need to be completed (in/out)?

 

[Ggroch]

Why wouldn’t the 2nd suggestion work? Does the loop need to be completed (in/out)?

No, my concern is that the Rec Out alway plays whatever source your choose....and the Outlaw user guide says that the External In can be used as an additional source, even if you do not hook up anything to the External Out...so, I think if you hooked the input of the LD to the Outlaw's Rec Out...when you choose the External Loop button, the Rec Out might play the External source...it would be playing into itself. So try method 1 first.

if that does not work as you expect then PM me or post again here, there are more ways to do it. The Outlaw is a very flexible receiver.

 

[matthew23]

Cool, thanks so much. It arrived today so I’ll mess with it after I put my kids to bed!

 

[mordy]

I am using my Little Dot MK2 as a pre amp by running the source (CD player etc) through the inputs in the little dot them running the outputs from that into the "main in" section on my NAD amp. This is effectively using the NAD to power my speakers and the LD as a preamp. Hope this helps.

Hi M23,
I have an Outlaw RR2150 receiver which I assume is similar to the 2160. On the back of it is a u-shaped jumper that connects the preamp section to the power amp. If you have this feature, you should be able to pull out the jumpers and just use the amp section in the 2160. This means that the tone controls won't work, and the volume is controlled by the LD if I understand correctly.
I am using my tube preamp as a tube buffer plugged into an equalizer circuit in an old Sony integrated amp. Even though the Sony has it's own preamp, this works well with good synergy, although I am not sure that all integrated amps will have the same synergy.
Personally, I enjoy being able to use the tone controls and the balance control, plus the ability to use multiple sources, all with glorious tube sound.

 

[matthew23]

So that means using the external processor approach suggested by Gg would still be the better option so I maintain control of those features, correct?

 

[Tony51]

I put these on and I swear by them, they put a tad more power and runs my cans with ease when the stock power tubes didn't.
6H30P SOVTEK - MATCHED PAIR
You can them at audiophiletubes.com

 

[Ggroch]

So that means using the external processor approach suggested by Gg would still be the better option so I maintain control of those features, correct?

The equalizer circuit Mordy describes on his Sony is just different terminology for external processor loop, they are the same, so that is where I would start. Just keep the volume low on everything until you know how it all works.

You can also (as Mordy mentions) just plug the LD to your Main Power Input, the problem is that since the LD Pre-Outs are always live...ie, do not shut off when you plug in headphones, the switching back and forth gets more complicated.

Start with the equalizer/external processor loop plan and let us know if you have issues. .

 

[matthew23]

The equalizer circuit Mordy describes on his Sony is just different terminology for external processor loop, they are the same, so that is where I would start. Just keep the volume low on everything until you know how it all works.

You can also (as Mordy mentions) just plug the LD to your Main Power Input, the problem is that since the LD Pre-Outs are always live...ie, do not shut off when you plug in headphones, the switching back and forth gets more complicated.

Start with the equalizer/external processor loop plan and let us know if you have issues. .

Will do. Thanks again for looking out!

 

[Ggroch]

There is a 15% off everything over $25 code til 8PM Pacific on eBay right now. So I am trying to choose my 2nd set of Preamp tubes for my MK III

I already have, and very much like, a pair of GE JAN 5654W. At the very start of the thread it was suggested Voshkod 67H1P-EVs are a great match, and Yenaudio seems a reliable vendor. I am equally intrigued by the Mullard 8100 option, but there seem to be a lot more versions of them, or at least a lot more brands of the same thing which is confusing. Is the Voshkod the best safe choice? At this point I would rather not deal with socket adapters or changing the internal jumpers unless there is a strong reason. Have to decide quick.

 

[matthew23]

So the external processor method worked! But I do get some clipping if I try to turn the LD up too much. If I keep it at 30% or so or less, it’s fine as long as I use the receiver to turn it up higher. Is that normal? Do you think adjusting the gain in the LD would help?

 

[Ggroch]

So the external processor method worked! But I do get some clipping if I try to turn the LD up too much.......

Great. The distortion you describe when turning up the LD volume too high is normal. When you are using the speakers (external loop button pushed) the perfect volume position on the LD is where your speakers are at the exact same volume with the LD tube buffer on (External Loop button pushed) as when it is not in the circuit (External Button Off). Just determine where that Is on the LD control, and then leave it there all the time when you are using your speakers. Adjust the volume for your speakers with the Outlaw Volume.

When you are using headphones only (external loop off), then adjust the LD volume however you want, it should not distort. You did test it with headphones only (external button off) right? that worked?

 

[matthew23]

Great. The distortion you describe when turning up the LD volume too high is normal. When you are using the speakers (external loop button pushed) the perfect volume position on the LD is where your speakers are at the exact same volume with the LD tube buffer on (External Loop button pushed) as when it is not in the circuit (External Button Off). Just determine where that Is on the LD control, and then leave it there all the time when you are using your speakers. Adjust the volume for your speakers with the Outlaw Volume.

When you are using headphones only (external loop off), then adjust the LD volume however you want, it should not distort. You did test it with headphones only (external button off) right? that worked?

Perfect! I adjusted the volume and everything works great! I did test the headphones with the EB off and everything checks out. Thanks so much!!! The amp thing is all new but I think I’m going to have fun trying out new tubes. The stock tubes are a bit harsh but I’ve ordered some that were recommended and can’t wait to try them.

You said you had a LD MKiii? How do you like that? I’d it worth an upgrade from the mkii? Any tubes you recommend?

 

[mordy]

Great. The distortion you describe when turning up the LD volume too high is normal. When you are using the speakers (external loop button pushed) the perfect volume position on the LD is where your speakers are at the exact same volume with the LD tube buffer on (External Loop button pushed) as when it is not in the circuit (External Button Off). Just determine where that Is on the LD control, and then leave it there all the time when you are using your speakers. Adjust the volume for your speakers with the Outlaw Volume.

When you are using headphones only (external loop off), then adjust the LD volume however you want, it should not distort. You did test it with headphones only (external button off) right? that worked?

Can't remember why, but the best results with speakers are supposed to be when you turn up the volume on the LD as much as you can without getting distortion. I also seem to remember that using headphones together with the speakers, lowers the volume on the headphones.
You have to watch out that you lower the volume before using headphones - could be way too loud using the same setting as for speakers.

Here is the link to the Little Dot MKIII manual:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5f8jzzwbxhulf3a/Little Dot MK III Reference Guide.docx?dl=0
Page 9 reads:
Little Dot MK III Pre-Amplifier Use

The Little Dot MK III is not

to

be used with a DC or direct coupled power amplifie

r. Doing so may

result in damage to your Little Dot and/or downstre

am components! The Little Dot MK III should only

be used with AC / capacitor coupled power amplifier

s. If you are unsure if your power amplifier or

receiver is AC or DC coupled, please contact the ma

nufacturer

’

s support line.

The pre-amplification signal in the Little Dot MK III

includes both the driver and power tubes for better

compatibility with power amplifiers with low input im

pedance (for example, transistor-based power amps).

Always

power on your Little Dot MK III pre-amplifier befor

e you power on your connected power amplifier

as

this is good practice for any pre-power combination (i

.e. power on components from upstream to

downstream).

It is also

highly recommended

to wait at least a minute after powering on your Li

ttle Dot

before turning on your power amplifier so that the Li

ttle Dot

’

s tubes have time to stabilize.

When powering your system off,

always

switch everything off from downstream to upstream, i.e

. first turn off

your power amplifier, then your pre-amp, and finally y

our source.

For best sound quality and lowest noise, first maximize

your source

’

s output level without introducing gain

(i.e. to 0 dB), and then set your Little Dot MK III

’

s volume to a relatively high level. Amplification d

one at the

pre-amp stage will result in less noise than amplificat

ion done at the power amplifier stage (if the ampli

fier

you are using as a power amp has volume control at all

).

One last thing to remember is keep all your components

connected to the same ground, as introducing

another amplifier in a pre-power setup increases the l

ikelihood of introducing a ground loop.
As far as I know, my Outlaw RR2150 is a DC coupled amp, and I did experience a meltdown of one channel (the amp blew up). Don't know if it was connected to the Little Dot or a blown speaker or both, but it was very unpleasant. I also don't know if the RR2160 incorporates protective circuitry, which apparently my old Sony amp has.
Just be forewarned and careful....
Sorry for the poor layout when I copied the manual.