[mordy]

Thanks. I respect your opinion and appreciate your feedback and experience.

We are not talking money here, the tubes are cheap.
Therefore I will grab a pair of matched/balanced and two random pairs and simply compare them.

I am certain I won't hear any difference at all and I'll have enough tubes for the rest of my life!

As a newcomer to Little Dot products in particular and tubes in general, please can I ask you to explain what you meant by "Since the Little Dot has no power tubes and they are not in pairs, there is no benefit for using matched tubes."?

It's bugging me...!

Hi cape town watches,
Don’t bother with matched tubes.
In addition, a quick eBay check shows 6N6P

Thank you all for your advice, all your opinions are somehow similar, that a real upgrade to Little Dot would be an Elise or Euforia (this one I do not really think I will afford in the near future). The MK3 or even MK4 are no match for it and the idea to keep the current "tube" collection is not feasible, since even this might be a drawback of the Little Dot family.
I know the title and focus of this thread, and I do not want to continue discussing other models here, where our purpose is to talk about LD tube rolling, but I will ask only 2 last questions about Elise, since I found someone who owned both LD and FA models.
1) How are the Elise stock tubes? They are decent and usable? Because the MK2 stock ones were pure garbage according to my taste and expectations.
2) I already own 2 C3G (Siemens) and 2 6SN7WGTA Jan Philips '86. Can I use these ones on Elise (of course changing current adapters)? (I guess both as drivers according to the manual, so for power tubes I will have to buy some 6N13S or keep stock ones).
I own also some 6H8C from 70s but they did not sound as expected on LD, I have not idea if these ones are usable on Elise or other amps and sound better.

Thank you all for your advice, all your opinions are somehow similar, that a real upgrade to Little Dot would be an Elise or Euforia (this one I do not really think I will afford in the near future). The MK3 or even MK4 are no match for it and the idea to keep the current "tube" collection is not feasible, since even this might be a drawback of the Little Dot family.
I know the title and focus of this thread, and I do not want to continue discussing other models here, where our purpose is to talk about LD tube rolling, but I will ask only 2 last questions about Elise, since I found someone who owned both LD and FA models.
1) How are the Elise stock tubes? They are decent and usable? Because the MK2 stock ones were pure garbage according to my taste and expectations.
2) I already own 2 C3G (Siemens) and 2 6SN7WGTA Jan Philips '86. Can I use these ones on Elise (of course changing current adapters)? (I guess both as drivers according to the manual, so for power tubes I will have to buy some 6N13S or keep stock ones).
I own also some 6H8C from 70s but they did not sound as expected on LD, I have not idea if these ones are usable on Elise or other amps and sound better.

Hi OH,

It is very important to know that since most vacuum tubes are not being made any more, a manufacturer is limited to a reliable supply of either current production tubes, or out of production tubes that still exist in large quantities. These factors dictate the choice of tubes offered,
The factory supplied driver tubes for the Elise have changed over time, but the power tubes have remained the same. The tubes supplied are a good combination to start with.
There are better options, but such tubes often are harder to come by and only available in small numbers.
I think originally the Elise came with Foton tubes, then Russian Reissue Tung Sol 6SN7GTB, and now Psvane tubes (with some upgrade choices). The power tubes have remained Svetlana 6N13C.
The C3g (with adapters), the 6H8C and 6SN7 will work fine in the Elise, and the Fotons will sound better than in the LD.
By reading this thread you will get a good idea of what to choose. In addition, synergy between different combinations of driver/power tubes is very important.
Happy tube rolling!

 

[Whelkie D]

You'll need to remove the base plate of the amp, as you would do if wanting to access the gain switches.

The version is printed on the edge of the PCB.

Thanks for that.

 

[Scutey]

Thank you all for your advice, all your opinions are somehow similar, that a real upgrade to Little Dot would be an Elise or Euforia (this one I do not really think I will afford in the near future). The MK3 or even MK4 are no match for it and the idea to keep the current "tube" collection is not feasible, since even this might be a drawback of the Little Dot family.
I know the title and focus of this thread, and I do not want to continue discussing other models here, where our purpose is to talk about LD tube rolling, but I will ask only 2 last questions about Elise, since I found someone who owned both LD and FA models.
1) How are the Elise stock tubes? They are decent and usable? Because the MK2 stock ones were pure garbage according to my taste and expectations.
2) I already own 2 C3G (Siemens) and 2 6SN7WGTA Jan Philips '86. Can I use these ones on Elise (of course changing current adapters)? (I guess both as drivers according to the manual, so for power tubes I will have to buy some 6N13S or keep stock ones).
I own also some 6H8C from 70s but they did not sound as expected on LD, I have not idea if these ones are usable on Elise or other amps and sound better.

H OH,

I won't try and add much more as mordy has already explained very well, but like you I used the Philips 6sn7 wgta and C3g in my mk III, the Elise makes better use of both, the C3g in particular sounds fantastic.

 

[capetownwatches]

Hi cape town watches,
Don’t bother with matched tubes.
In addition, a quick eBay check shows 6N6P

Thanks Mordy!

I'm not going to bother with matching.

Visiting the seller tomorrow and will choose a few pairs that look perfect.
They are date matched so I'm confident all will be good.

 

[capetownwatches]

So I drove the 35 odd miles to go collect the tubes, and the seller let me have a closely matched pair at no additional charge.
Nice value-add, and the tubes look like they left the factory yesterday. Really mint.

We had a nice chat, he reckons he's bought numerous separate lots of 6N6P and they have all been of very high quality.
They almost all test new and with minimal variances, save for a couple here and there, and those are still eminently usable.

Mine are dated 85-05 and without further ado I rolled them into Little Dot with RCA 5654.
lets see what these 33 year old Russians can do.

Frankly I wasn't expecting the immediate and stark improvements. Like I was using new cans.

Deeper and tighter bass (which is deepening further with burn in), gone was the treble glare of the 6N6 that I only recognized in hindsight.

There is now more heft and weight to the sound.

Smoother, creamier mids and way more detail in the music with DT990 Pro 250 and HD600.

Even the DT990 seems more relaxed now, I can only surmise that the 6N6P has rolled off the treble a tad?
I'm not even sure that an output tube can have that kind of effect?

I could (and will) listen to this combination for hours - I really am amazed at the difference.
Best $16 plus gas I ever spent in this hobby.

 

[Scutey]

So I drove the 35 odd miles to go collect the tubes, and the seller let me have a closely matched pair at no additional charge.
Nice value-add, and the tubes look like they left the factory yesterday. Really mint.

We had a nice chat, he reckons he's bought numerous separate lots of 6N6P and they have all been of very high quality.
They almost all test new and with minimal variances, save for a couple here and there, and those are still eminently usable.

Mine are dated 85-05 and without further ado I rolled them into Little Dot with RCA 5654.
lets see what these 33 year old Russians can do.

Frankly I wasn't expecting the immediate and stark improvements. Like I was using new cans.

Deeper and tighter bass (which is deepening further with burn in), gone was the treble glare of the 6N6 that I only recognized in hindsight.

There is now more heft and weight to the sound.

Smoother, creamier mids and way more detail in the music with DT990 Pro 250 and HD600.

Even the DT990 seems more relaxed now, I can only surmise that the 6N6P has rolled off the treble a tad?
I'm not even sure that an output tube can have that kind of effect?

I could (and will) listen to this combination for hours - I really am amazed at the difference.
Best $16 plus gas I ever spent in this hobby.

The 6N6P was a favourite of mine in my LD, you're also right about the treble being a bit rolled off, I found it to be warm and very punchy in the bass as you mentioned, I also feel the power tube has more influence than some believe in the overall sound.

Enjoy your 6N6P!.

 

[JazzVinyl]

I see the LD MK 6+ has a pair of fans inside to keep things cool. Does anyone know if the LD MK9 has a fan inside?

 

[Whelkie D]

The 6N6P was a favourite of mine in my LD, you're also right about the treble being a bit rolled off, I found it to be warm and very punchy in the bass as you mentioned, I also feel the power tube has more influence than some believe in the overall sound.

Enjoy your 6N6P!.

Yes, I'd read that the power tubes affected the overall sound by about 15%. I was shocked when I put the Russian 6N6Ps in. I found them to be much warmer. I reckon it's more like 25% - 30% of the sound character comes from the power tubes.

 

[Scutey]

Agreed, that's been my feeling for awhile, I also used to use 6n6p-ir with my LD, and the difference was instantly noticeable when changing between the two.

 

[Whelkie D]

Agreed, that's been my feeling for awhile, I also used to use 6n6p-ir with my LD, and the difference was instantly noticeable when changing between the two.

I found the "IR"s had a bit more treble. Did you notice that?

 

[Scutey]

I found the "IR"s had a bit more treble. Did you notice that?

Definitely, and with it a bit more detail too, maybe a touch more refined, not as much bass as the 6N6P, which is why I loved them so much, it gives them very much a fun sound imo.

 

[capetownwatches]

Yes, I'd read that the power tubes affected the overall sound by about 15%. I was shocked when I put the Russian 6N6Ps in. I found them to be much warmer. I reckon it's more like 25% - 30% of the sound character comes from the power tubes.

Tubes themselves don't have a "sound". It's the way the amp has been designed to work with a tube type that determines sound output (simply put, all other things being equal).

The 'sound" depends on working conditions such as currents, voltages, impedance and physical construction et al.
This determines the tubes' transfer functions - power dissipated by electrodes changes their temperatures and hence transfer functions.

What matters is how close the electrical parameters of the tube are (especially dependencies of currents on voltages) to what the rig was designed for.
There are no "bad" tubes or "good" tubes.
It all depends on how suitably built (electrical and physical characteristics) a certain tube is for a certain circuit.

Like DAC chips - implementation is a huge part of the success or failure of the design, not just the chip.

And of course then there is the subjective hearing of the listener, who prefers the interaction of a certain tube/amp combo.

I love the way the 6N6P works with my LD MKll - there is a synergy that appeals to my hearing using my cans. YMMV.

This is what makes this hobby such fun!

 

[DRKreiger]

Does anyone know of an accurate schematic for the MK2?? I almost feel like the negative feedback is shifting with the volume. Maybe i am crazy, but my other preamp didn't have odd spots with distortion. same everything other than adding the LD MK2.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Whelkie D]

People have mentioned the 6H30 as a power tube for the MK2. How do they compare with the 6N6Ps and would I need an adaptor to try them or can they just drop straight in?

 

[capetownwatches]

People have mentioned the 6H30 as a power tube for the MK2. How do they compare with the 6N6Ps and would I need an adaptor to try them or can they just drop straight in?

There have been numerous posts in this thread that will tell you all you need to know...start here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...ube-rolling-guide.563884/page-96#post-9480971