Little Dot MK2 unimpressed
Aug 1, 2020 at 7:31 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 11

Droccord

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So I been here for the last hour or so listening to the Mk2 and my JDS Element 2, switching back and forth using my 6XX and Fostex X00. From what I have read and heard that there supposed to be a pretty big difference between a tube and SS will, but honestly I don't hear much of a difference. The high and lows have a very very little difference, and the sound stage hardly had any difference. They say the 6xx is supposed to be a little more wide but didn't get that. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if the Mk2 isn't a good tube amp to try. Or is it people trying really hard to find some sort of tiny difference just to say there's something there. I was considering a Darkvoice but me not seeing much of any difference I don't know if it's worth it.
 
Aug 2, 2020 at 3:45 PM Post #2 of 11
Is the amp new to you? It should do a nice job with your 6XX but I wouldn't expect the Fostex to sound very good out of it.
 
Aug 2, 2020 at 3:50 PM Post #5 of 11
Aug 3, 2020 at 12:27 AM Post #6 of 11
You also need to be prepared for listening to subtleties, hype train will tell you that one amp will have a night and day difference than another, but in reality an amp would have to be incredibly poorly designed or mismatched impedance for it to sound that different from another. The human brain is remarkable at filtering out distortions, so, it takes some time to pick up the subtleties. There are elements of the sound that are affected by amps and can be different between amps, but most of them come down to small changes, so much so that it almost makes more sense to just buy a decent value amp and be satisfied for a while why spending money on transducers and music. Transducers do have larger changes in sound, due to varied frequency responses, distortions and dampening, even the angle of the drivers can affect how sound enters our ears.

Now brace yourself for the inevitable tube heads that will come on and tell you that some specific 1946 nos tube will open the amp up and allow it to transport you to vahalla on golden wings (exaggeration). Tubes do sound different from design to design, but again, not sweeping changes, very subtle (with some exceptions). Best to get a few for the fun factor, but no reason to go overboard, or get extremely expensive tubes when there are plenty of decent ones to be had for better price.
 
Aug 3, 2020 at 3:12 AM Post #7 of 11
I myself have noticed very significant changes when upgrading tubes on a low-end OTL amp. I agree in general that well-designed amps don't have glaring differences between them but they do have subtle character, and tube rolling can make a big difference since most low-end amps don't come with tubes that are very good at all.

I also don't think it makes sense to buy a cheap amp ("decent value amp") for a lot of people although for other people it clearly does (THX crowd, measurement crowd etc). The reason is that things like build quality, longevity, support etc. are real values and can differ significantly. You might enjoy the music out of a cheap THX amp and a good pair of headphones as much as you enjoy it out of a very nice amp and a good pair of headphones. But there is pride of ownership that comes from beautifully made components of good materials and other things that adds value and enjoyment to the audio hobby that you don't get with value gear.
 
Aug 3, 2020 at 4:44 AM Post #8 of 11
Never finished my sentence, though buy a decent value amp and be "satisfied for a while" does imply the second part, that you can buy something more sophisticated later on. It still is a semi dubious expenditure of capital in the beginning as pride of ownership and craftsmanship does not necessarily lead to a substantial increase of sound quality, though they often do whether it is actual improvement or perceived improvement is irrelevant, as long as the enjoyment is real. I would still argue that subtle changes are the more realistic expectation going forward when it comes to upgrading amps, and that if you do notice a large sweeping change, than it usually means something was not working correctly before, or more than likely some expectation bias is involved. That is not a fault though, many a life has been dedicated to the pursuit of the subtle changes from one object to another, just look at vino's or cigar aficionados for an example. I think sometimes we confuse new people in the hobby by making the changes seem more grand than they actually are, it not be our intention, as to us those changes are very real and provide additional nuance. But subjectively, they are still small changes that rarely match the dollar amount involved. (As a side note, I would rather put my money towards a nicer high quality amp than a rare and expensive cigar, the amp will last a lot longer and ultimately provide more enjoyment in the long run, unless you are an aficionado that just enjoys the smell and not the smoke).


I did avoid the cheap word, although decent value and cheap often go hand in hand. I hesitate to recommend an actual product as im not advocating a change in amps to the op at this time, after all, he just purchased this one and he should have a chance to enjoy it first. I will avoid defending the, unmentioned by myself, thx amp series, as it is non applicable to the original post. I have never heard the jds labs element 2, but I did hear the original element and it a pretty decent value dac/amp, and would certainly hold its own against most amps, and for a wide variety of headphones as well.

And back to tubes, I am one of those that does hear changes from one tube to the next, at least most of the time as some do sound very close indeed, but i have yet to find a tube that did not sound good to me, at least in some way. I could be flawed i admit, but I do find the differences as more subtle than sweeping. Your mileage may vary, but i still advise that a 400 dollar set of tubes is unlikely to unlock a 350 dollar increase of sound quality, and besides the point to boot, the question was never sound quality in the first place, but rather a question of noticing the differences in two very different amps with completely different architecture. I would focus on enjoying what you have, let your brain burn in a bit before spending more money on tubes that will only have subtle changes. Like I stated earlier, the human brain is very good at filtering out distortion, particularly of the tube variety kind (if it didn't than we would notice a difference much more immediately and not in a good way). Got to give your brain time to adjust and let the small nuances of the sound grow on you. It certainly can sound very pleasant, but as it is subtle and linked strongly to our perception, can take time to appreciate, and indeed may not end up being your cup of tea. Only time will tell.
 
Aug 3, 2020 at 10:38 AM Post #9 of 11
I agree with some of your points but I also went through a brief period of buying el-cheapo gear and it was a complete waste of money. I can't recommend that to anybody. Rather they should seek advice of a few people and buy reasonable gear that they won't decide to can or sell at a loss in a year.
 
Aug 3, 2020 at 2:03 PM Post #10 of 11
Thats a valuable opinion and I agree for the most part, though a value piece of equipment can still point you in the right direction and is much less of a loss than if you purchased a really expensive piece of equipment. The little dot that the op has is a great first tube amp, and much less of a loss if the op decides he does not like tubes.

Though, inevitably someone will suggest that the amp being so cheap is the reason that the op does not hear any difference and that he needs to double down with a more expensive tube amp and soon enough op is going down the road you alluded to where he is buying multiple different amps until he finds that magical tube amp that he does hear a positive change or his brain just decides to white flag it and just except that what he is hearing is superior sound.

Regardless, op already has 2 good value amps, one tube, and one solid state, which should cover him for at least a year or 2 (or more), and can give him an idea on what he wants for the future. And he has 2 nice headphones that should give him some direction as well. I definitely agree that he should give what he has a long listen and not purchase the darkvoice. The mk2 should be more than sufficient to show op if he will like the tube sound.
 
Aug 3, 2020 at 2:11 PM Post #11 of 11
Agreed, well said.
 

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