[AudioMan2013]

These are 5" and not class A, but supposedly designed for low volumes listening...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LYD5

Thanks, I was looking for passive speakers. I looked at 5" but they are too big. There is a huge size difference between 4 and 5 when it comes to mini desk speakers.

 

[rb2013]

Looking at these two DAC's for a new mod project:
Both R2R - tubed.
 
The Lite DAC50 uses the BB PCM-63-UK 20bit R2R chip
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Details-about-Lite-DAC-50-Hi-Fi-D-A-Converter-Tube-Output-Brand-New-/302123303919?hash=item4657f3c3ef:g:jl4AAOSwcLxYFVxI
 
 
The other a AD1865N-K R2R 18bit without a digital filter - tube rectification, and output.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio-12AU7-Buffer-AD1865-Decoding-Digital-Tube-Based-Nos-DAC-OPT-COA-AES-/262293005695?hash=item3d11e1a57f:gsAAOSwaB5Xi94Z

 

[AudioMan2013]

Wow, prices have gone up for Chinese audio!!  

 

[rb2013]

Well not really, I paid $650 for the stock Lite DAC60. Wish I could find another one.

The $850 NOS AD1865 has tube rectification, the Audio Note dacs are similar and sell for $20,000

 

[rb2013]

This R2R NOS DAC board looks very interesting!  Maybe time for a new project:

[the ZERO] DAC TDA1540 R2R Isolated nonoversampling NOS Audio with FIFO reclock

Philips invented CD Compact Disc audio and released the world's first audio DAC chip: TDA1540, that's why people also call it [the ZERO]. TDA1540 is a single channel DAC, it is also the only single channel Audio DAC made by philips, it has the highest channel seperation that the later DAC like the famous TDA1541 which cannot ever match. Due to it's unique identity, many people has tried to make TDA1540 DAC but most are failed due to it's incompatible offset binary input format with the latest receiver. But finally, our advanced logic engineer has done it in only few weeks and with the best algorithm for diyer to easily play with it.
R2R, RECLOCK, ISOLATED, NONOVERSAMLING, all mystery area in the audiophile world are now included in an all-in-one compact PCB!
The I2S reclock input circuit in this PCB is based on the Analog Device AN207 stop clock algorithm, left and right channel DAC are latch at the same time. With our enhanced and optimized redesign, it has no phase different problem as the other convertor in the market. The MCK from the I2S input is used to drive the input flip flop for FIFO reclock, it do not have the problem as the other complex reclock scheme which drop or double dozens of unnecessary samples every second, and it do not use CPLD/FPGA(contains thousand of logic gates) as the other design which actually increase the jitter tenth of time(due to the signal path includes thousands of logic gates) after reclock. This PCB is target for audiophile.
The sound from this DAC is unique, sweet, clear and full of detail that the newest cutting edge delta sigma DAC can never produce. If you haven't taste this kind of sound before it's definitely a regret for an audiophile. It's like compare Vinyl and CD, Rollling shutter and global shutter in the DSLR.
This item includes PCB with all SMT component soldered, thru-hole component are not soldered.
Features:
1) TDA1540 world's first R2R Audio DAC - the ZERO
2) Solid ground plane with careful split of digital and analog portion(a must for highest fidelity audio)
3) No Via in active circuit (via inductance always create jitter problem)
4) 0.1% Low noise thin film resistor and C0G Capacitor sourced from Digikey USA (guarantee no fake product from China)
5) Gold plate I2S input connector and four dedicated GND return path for each I2S signal(lowest contact resistance and highest signal quality)
6) The included xmos pcb in the combo is the same as the one sell separately in the store(i.e. flashed with general firmware)
User guide:

1)The TDA1540 PCB can work immediately with only I2S signal and power supply connected, 3.3V (>300mA), +-5V (>100mA), -18V(>100mA), +-12V(>100mA).The +-5V power can be supplied by two individual 5V supply. i.e. 5V1 GND1, 5V2 GND2 connected as 5V=5V1, GND=GND1=5V2, -5V=GND2
2)The reclock quality depends on the jitter of MCK, When used with our XMOS PCB, the MCK is connected to the low jitter low phase noise NDK oscillator directly and achieve the best reclock performance.
3)For windows, set the output to full volume and the same sample rate as the music file for bit perfect non-oversampling NOS audio playback.
4)Microsoft acquires Pacific Microsonics(inventor of the renowned PMD100 and PMD200 digital filter) at Sep-2000, windows user should enjoy the same sound signature as using PMD100/200 when switch to listen at higher than the original music file sample rate from the system sound control panel using NOS DAC.
5)Double check all the capacitor are installed in the correct polarity before turn on your power supply.
6)For Diyer requires more deeper customization or customized IV stage, the Iout directly from the DAC chip is connected to a 2.54mm spacing socket. For advanced usage, the latest version of TDA1540 datasheet is available.
7)Compact size 90mm x 100mm
Specification:
1) I2S Input: MCK, LRCK, BCK, DATA (*BCK = 64x LRCK, MCK >= 2x BCK)
2) Output level: 2V RMS
3) Resolution/Sampling Rate: Upto 16,24,32bit / 192KHz (the most significant 14bit is played)
4) Supply: Regulated 3.3V, +-5V, -18V, +-12V
*There is no new TDA1540 in the market, the included TDA1540 DAC chip is new old stock or fully test recycle chip.
 

 

 
 
 
http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/100--the-zero-dac-tda1540-r2r-isolated-nonoversampling-nos-audio-with-fifo-reclock.html#/dac_option-xmos_768k_dac_and_oled_pcb

 

[astrostar59]

Well not really, I paid $650 for the stock Lite DAC60. Wish I could find another one.

The $850 NOS AD1865 has tube rectification, the Audio Note dacs are similar and sell for $20,000

You need to stop pushing miss information like that. The Audio Note DAC you are presumably referring to is the DAC 5 Special? It has a complex Galahad power supply with huge 2 mains and SHUNT power supply, Hard wired board, 3 tubes and lots of oversized Blackgates. It is the same as Audio Note use in their reference M6-M8 Pre-amplifiers (some of the best pre-amplifiers ever made).
 

The digital board also has SHUNT power supply. Custom silver wired input transformers, then dual custom I/V transformers, a 2 tube line stage with 1 x 5814a and 1 x 6463. Blackgates and Audio Note Tantalums on the PCB. Silver wiring throughout. Audio Note

AN-Perma 50 double C-cores output transformers giving (incredibly low) output impedance of 16ohms.

 

​All custom made and designed in-house. The range goes from the 1.1, 2.1, 3.1, 4.1. 4.1 Balanced and the 5 Special. I have owned most of these models and modded a 4.1 heavily myself. I can tell you the DAC 5 has nothing in common with your DAC60 apart from it is a DAC with tubes. Not similar. I would suggest you get to a DAC 5 before you quote as facts.....

 

My modded 4.1 beat pretty much every DAC I tried it against. The DAC 5 is something else.

 

[rb2013]

You need to stop pushing miss information like that. The Audio Note DAC you are presumably referring to is the DAC 5 Special? It has a complex Galahad power supply with huge 2 mains and SHUNT power supply, Hard wired board, 3 tubes and lots of oversized Blackgates. It is the same as Audio Note use in their reference M6-M8 Pre-amplifiers (some of the best pre-amplifiers ever made).

The digital board also has SHUNT power supply. Custom silver wired input transformers, then dual custom I/V transformers, a 2 tube line stage with 1 x 5814a and 1 x 6463. Blackgates and Audio Note Tantalums on the PCB. Silver wiring throughout. Audio Note AN-Perma 50 double C-cores output transformers giving (incredibly low) output impedance of 16ohms.

​All custom made and designed in-house. The range goes from the 1.1, 2.1, 3.1, 4.1. 4.1 Balanced and the 5 Special. I have owned most of these models and modded a 4.1 heavily myself. I can tell you the DAC 5 has nothing in common with your DAC60 apart from it is a DAC with tubes. Not similar. I would suggest you get to a DAC 5 before you quote as facts.....

My modded 4.1 beat pretty much every DAC I tried it against. The DAC 5 is something else.

I was not comparing the AN to my DAC60...please stop misquoting me. I compared it to the NOS AD1865 tube output and rectified Douk Audio. But yes you are correct, and it would be silly to think a $850 DAC can equal a DAC many, many times more expensive. But I bet with some mods it could get some what close at a fraction of the cost. If tne Douk Audio unit used 6922 instead of 12au7's and 12ax7's I'd give the project a go.

Might still try it. The TDA1540 board is not as interesting, limited to 14 bits.

I meant that the Douk Audio was 'similar' to the AN, in that they both are NOS DAC's using AD1865 chips, and tube outputs. The AN transformers, boards, and certainly their caps are of higher quality.

May get one of these Douk's anyway...just compare to my DAC60.

Cheers!

 

[astrostar59]

I was not comparing the AN to my DAC60...please stop misquoting me. I compared it to the NOS AD1865 tube output and rectified Douk Audio. But yes you are correct, and it would be silly to think a $850 DAC can equal a DAC many, many times more expensive. But I bet with some mods it could get some what close at a fraction of the cost. If tne Douk Audio unit used 6922 instead of 12au7's and 12ax7's I'd give the project a go.

Might still try it. The TDA1540 board is not as interesting, limited to 14 bits.

I meant that the Douk Audio was 'similar' to the AN, in that they both are NOS DAC's using AD1865 chips, and tube outputs. The AN transformers, boards, and certainly their caps are of higher quality.

May get one of these Douk's anyway...just compare to my DAC60.

Cheers!

Fare enough, apology accepted. I am conscious misrepresenting a companies products can do a lot of damage as it hangs around forever, then becomes a 'fact'.
 
If we say all DACs with tubed PS and tubed line stage are 'equal' then we also say 95% of solid state Delta-Sigma DACs are also identical and sound the same regardless of design, quality and budget. Not is not the case as we know.
 
Bear in mind a LOT of Chinese gear is fake, or copies or other designs using cheap as chips caps and poor quality parts. And the majority of NOS DAC chips especially the ones not in production are also fakes. Audio Note bought up pretty much the rest of the AD1865 chips, the ones left are probably now fakes. There are some good Chines and Korean low budget DACs around but care need to be used in buying. AudioGD comes to mind as a good company, and MHT.
 
My other point is, IMO a DAC is a pre-amplifier with a digital board. You need very good power supply regulation and integrity to feed the line stage and digital board. Many DACs (most) have poor power supplies, cheap torriods and noisy power. 
 
The other thing to watch, is the I/V conversion. This is crucial to getting the energy transfer from the fragile voltages on the digital domain into the line stage. I have tried a few of the Audio Note I/V transformers in Audio Note DACs and they do make a big difference as the quality and amount of silver in them goes up.
 
Then the line stage needs to be well designed, preferably without a 2 gain non same tube type on it. Having the same tube exaggerates the sonic signature of that tube on the sound too much.
 
The use of very carefully designed and matched output transformers also take the sound quality to another level, and also reduce the output impedance right down to drive the next stage. I actually get enough gain and matching to be able to drop a pre-amplifier in my system and use a passive with further gains in dynamics and speed.
 
Last but not least the quality of the coupling caps has a marked effect on the sound. The Audio Note DACs level 4 and up use the AN silver caps, but I also like V-Caps and the Duelund Copper cast. Both are very smooth but also very transparent, which is exactly what you need. I am not so keen on the Mundorfs for coupling caps, there are better ones to be had (at more cost). Though their caps for power supplies are very good. IMO blackgates are still the best for power supplies, and Audio Note has started (with Rubycon) to make the Kassai range which is very close to the original BGs now not in production.

 

[rb2013]

 
Fare enough, apology accepted. I am conscious misrepresenting a companies products can do a lot of damage as it hangs around forever, then becomes a 'fact'.
 
If we say all DACs with tubed PS and tubed line stage are 'equal' then we also say 95% of solid state Delta-Sigma DACs are also identical and sound the same regardless of design, quality and budget. Not is not the case as we know.
 
Bear in mind a LOT of Chinese gear is fake, or copies or other designs using cheap as chips caps and poor quality parts. And the majority of NOS DAC chips especially the ones not in production are also fakes. Audio Note bought up pretty much the rest of the AD1865 chips, the ones left are probably now fakes. There are some good Chines and Korean low budget DACs around but care need to be used in buying. AudioGD comes to mind as a good company, and MHT.
 
My other point is, IMO a DAC is a pre-amplifier with a digital board. You need very good power supply regulation and integrity to feed the line stage and digital board. Many DACs (most) have poor power supplies, cheap torriods and noisy power. 
 
The other thing to watch, is the I/V conversion. This is crucial to getting the energy transfer from the fragile voltages on the digital domain into the line stage. I have tried a few of the Audio Note I/V transformers in Audio Note DACs and they do make a big difference as the quality and amount of silver in them goes up.
 
Then the line stage needs to be well designed, preferably without a 2 gain non same tube type on it. Having the same tube exaggerates the sonic signature of that tube on the sound too much.
 
The use of very carefully designed and matched output transformers also take the sound quality to another level, and also reduce the output impedance right down to drive the next stage. I actually get enough gain and matching to be able to drop a pre-amplifier in my system and use a passive with further gains in dynamics and speed.
 
Last but not least the quality of the coupling caps has a marked effect on the sound. The Audio Note DACs level 4 and up use the AN silver caps, but I also like V-Caps and the Duelund Copper cast. Both are very smooth but also very transparent, which is exactly what you need. I am not so keen on the Mundorfs for coupling caps, there are better ones to be had (at more cost). Though their caps for power supplies are very good. IMO blackgates are still the best for power supplies, and Audio Note has started (with Rubycon) to make the Kassai range which is very close to the original BGs now not in production.

I completely agree with you - I rate the best AN DACs at the top of my DAC wish list.  As you know I'm a big tube DAC fan.  The AN5 and 5 Special are out of my budget right now.  I agree on the AN caps being top draw - same for the V-Caps and the Duelands - but don't discount the Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil as well.
See the cap shootout at the beginning of the thread:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
 

Mundorf MCap Supreme Silver Gold Oil 1200VDC - 2% tolerance
Technical specifications (according to manufacturer): "The MCap Supreme Silver Gold Oil is definitely the top-of-the line model of our oil impregnated capacitors. In comparison with the Silver/Oil version, it technically features a further extended lifetime. More importantly, sonically the Silver/Gold/Oil version stands out due to its wonderful natural singing and exceptional micro dynamic, same time. Capacitance: 0.010uF-10uF; Dielectric: Polyprophylene; Metallisation: 99.99% silver, 1% gold; Purity of silver: min. 99.97% typ. 99.99%; Purity of gold: min. 99.97% typ. 99.99%".
Sound: At this level we are talking about a really serious capacitor, so my findings are relative to other exotic types. They are richer and better layered than the Mundorf Silver Gold (without the oil) and they seem more open and more spatial. Compared to the Duelund VSF-Cu they are not as rich in harmonic overtones. The Duelund VSF-Cu creates smoother harmonics and a better midrange balance but the Mundorf Silver Gold Oil really excels in image depth - call it bowling alley depth! In direct comparison, the Duelund VSF-Cu sounds flatter (a bit more 2D) and a little rounded-off at the top. Like most Mundorf capacitors, the Silver Gold Oil has a slight hint of top-end emphasis, this probably contributes to the perceived spatiality and micro-detailing. But I am very happy to live with that, these capacitors are so quiet and really let you look very deep into the recording!
Verdict: 12+

The Jupiter Copper Foil Paper & Wax are excellent  - but limited to lower voltages. OK for crossovers.  The Audyn True Copper Max MKP are excellent as well - but have limited value ranges.
 
Now the only AN caps I see with at least a 2.7uf value are the Silver Foils.  Not 2.7uf but a 3.3uf - 'only' $2000 each.  Ridiculous money.  I have had the V-Cap Telfons and liked them  - but are hard to find in many values - and when you do they are silly priced.  The highest value I could find for their Copper Foils is 2uf and they are $785 each and only rated to 450V vs the 1200V for the Mundorf Sup S/G/O.
http://www.v-cap.com/cutf-capacitors.php
 
http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cap_paper.shtml
 
I have not heard good thing on the Rubycon version of the BG's.  Not to the level of the original BG's.  But the ELNA's have gained a large following Nichicon as well.  I used the Similic II and Fine Gold in my project.  Where proper values where available.  I also used a rather large Mundorf M'ytic in this project.  You see this is my point take the basic construction of a well designed Chinese DAC and swap in better components where needed.  Not every European piece of audio gear is top draw - just because it's made in Europe. We have to loose this snobbish attitude.  'All Chinese gear is made of fakes'...and sounds like garbage.
Here is an excellent 'Lytic cap shootout.
http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html
 
This R2R looks interesting -  6922 true tube output -  love the cap terminally - for quick Cap swapping.
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80
 
Ad this one discrete R2R with switchable NOS and OS - not tube unfortunately
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/
 
Both reasonably priced.  Would love to see Schiit do a 6922 tube Yggie

 

[rb2013]

Interesting review in the Dec 2016 issue of Hi-Fi World magazine on the Schiit Modi Multi-Bit:
 
This low cost multi-bit DAC used the same same DAC chip as in the Yggie and Gumby (although the Yggie uses 4 AD DAC chips I believe).
 
The unit uses the 16-bit Analog Devices AD5547 with Schiit's proprietary closed-form digital filter running on an Analog Devices SHARC DSP processor.
 
 
Interesting as the tester note the very high levels of distortion measured - 1.4% with a poor 96dB dynamic range (below CD at 102dB).
These measurements are way higher then what Schiit show under 'SPECS' for the Modi Multi-bit.  Hum...
 
Note the DAC60 PCM1704U-K 24-bit multi-bit DAC measures at 112dB Typ and 106dB min dynamic range.  Distortion at .08% typ and .15% max @ 0dB

 

[roman410]

   Hi, after over year time my modding project Lite DAC 60 it is coming to the end. So many soldering and desoldering, swapping  and burning capacitors, try to find best tonal balance to my music preferences. This was my first modding project, without soldering skills( I have just done before DIY project make custom wire for my headphones). Thanks to rb2013, to discover this awesome DAC.
   One more mod., Furutech FI-06 G IEC inlet coming on the mail, hope will fit to chassis hole.

 

[rb2013]

Nice work @Roman410!
 
What other coupling caps have you tried besides the Clarity's?  Did you try running .01 Vishay bypasses there?
 
Interesting using a film cap in the PS where there were 'Lytics - that can be done with the right film caps.
 
Love those WBT Nexgen connectors - not cheap!
 
Cheers
Bob

 

[roman410]

     Thank you, that words feels very good from contributor head-fier!
Another coupling caps I am try was your recommended Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil. From cold they was close in, after 300h burn-in they
opened, sweet tone, deep in soundstage magic sound. Unfortunately, after 600h I am found sound change with too much energy 
to treble, too bright to my taste.
     After long  research pull the trigger to Clarity Cap MR. From beginning they was more balanced from bottom to top,
neutral, maybe  little less detailed and sweet tone like Mundorf, but  I am happy with them, and they need just 200h+ to sound best.
Very valuable caps.  Also they are rate to 100C temperature, which that let my them soldering directly to the board. I am do not
try baypas with Vishay, maybe next, they are not too expensive.
     That WBT Nextgen connectors I get from http://www.russandrews.com/us/wbt0210cu-nextgen-chassis-sockets/, cheapest and from reputable seller. Cost my 2 pairs $100,- shipped from England. That was my best hundred dollars spend on this hobby, that upgrade on
clarity and transparency, unbelievable how just connectors can change the sound.Very recommended. They have Ag too, for little more cost.
     Furutech FI-06 G arrived today from soniccraft together with Neotech Hook-up wire, for DIY project DC split Y wire for my uptone lps-1 power supply. I will by so busy these long weekend.

 

[ricardogonc]

Hi guys,
I hope you can help me with my DAC68. I've done the several upgrades on capacitors and others as mentioned here for the DAC60, and I've had a very good increase in the quality and it's been stable for 2 years now.
BUT now I've tried to change the stock clock 24.576 with a VANGUARD TCXO .1ppm and the swap worked very well initialy and the sound was incredibly more consistent. After 2 hours of operation, it just started to make digital noise and I've shut it down. When restarting it worked for 1 minute until the digital noise came up again. After this I swaped with the original clock but the behaviour was exactly the same.
Right now when I turn the DAC on , absolutely nothing happens, no sound at all and no digital noise. I'm stuck and don't know where to start diagnosing this.
Do you have any ideas?
Heeeeeelp

 

[madsry]

See next post (this one was mistakenly submitted)