[mralexosborn]

I haven't heard of any of those. I am just sitting here dusting off my Pateks and Vacherons. 

 

[dsf3g]

 
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Seems to me that depending on your musical preferences, your source tracks might not justify super expensive audio equipment. Sure you will benefit from a nice set of headphones over a pair of $5.00 COBY Wal Mart specials, but spending $6000 to capture subtle nuances that were not captured by the original recording equpiment itself seems rather pointless.

Pointless like a Bugatti Veyron, a Blancpain watch or a $400 filet? Or do you feel like those things are more justified?

 
Interesting examples, all of them. Let's hit them one by one:
 
The Blancpain watch: chances are, if its anything like a Rolex, you can get a more accurate watch by walking into Walmart and dropping $10.00 on a digital made-in-China special. So what you're going for with a timepiece like this is 100% status symbol. Now' I'm sure the headphones you wear confer a certain "status" within the audiophile community, but my experience is that most audiophiles buy stuff that they believe performs exquisitely, and indeed will often overlook "utilitarian" design if the sound merits it (i.e. Grado Labs stuff)
 
The Bugatti Veyron: Ugh... I loathe that car, so let's go with a McLaren F1 instead. Here you've got a million dollar vehicle that objectively performs better than just about anything on the road. But 99.99% of owners will never actually push the car anywhere near its limits. It is an object of beauty, too, a stunning example of industrial design. To this extent you could compare it to a set of beautiful, exotic, super expensive headphones. However, I'd venture that there is one big difference between the guy who buys a McLaren F1 and the guy who buys a $2000 pair of headphones: the McLaren owner doesn't pretend he's good enough a driver to be able to fully exploit the full capabilities of the car. The owner of high-end headphones, OTOH probably does believe he can head the difference between his $2000 headphones and a $500 model with a similar sound signature.
 
Finally, the $400.00 steak: this one, I'd wager is pure snake oil. The least justifiable purchase. It's like a $300.00 power cable for your amplifier. A $10.00 one would perform/taste just as well. (Maybe a little more $$ for the steak, but no more than $25.00)
 
So, in the end, are any of these purchases "justified?" I guess to the extent that they bring a certain "pleasure of ownership," why not. But, of course, that doesn't answer the question I posed at the beginning, which was: is there any point to paying top dollar for cutting headphone technology to listen to recordings that were made using 40-year-old recording technology?
 
I'm officially proclaiming myself an agnostic on this point, which is why I started the thread.
 
It's also purely academic for me in one important respect: I for one, do listen to plenty of stuff that was recorded in the past 10-20 years. So I'm not exclusively listening to stuff that was recorded with more primitive sound equipment.

 

[Currawong]

Try listening to Bill Evans live at the Village Vanguard through a vintage Stax rig. Absolutely lovely.
 
As for expensive headphones, the HD-800s only (measurably) matched the Sony R10s in capability and they were released in 1989.  IMO the only serious advance we've had in headphone design has been the new orthodynamics, and they are based on technology from decades ago. Not to mention, it has taken a decade for Stax to best their Omega II headphones.  However, there has been considerable progress in the design of digital components and there is a plethora of amps available now compared to a few years ago, so more than anything, it's easier to get an entire, excellent headphone rig (and even a very decent speaker rig) for far less than $6000.

 

[mralexosborn]

The Blancpain watch: chances are, if its anything like a Rolex, you can get a more accurate watch by walking into Walmart and dropping $10.00 on a digital made-in-China special. So what you're going for with a timepiece like this is 100% status symbol. Now' I'm sure the headphones you wear confer a certain "status" within the audiophile community, but my experience is that most audiophiles buy stuff that they believe performs exquisitely, and indeed will often overlook "utilitarian" design if the sound merits it (i.e. Grado Labs stuff)
 
Finally, the $400.00 steak: this one, I'd wager is pure snake oil. The least justifiable purchase. It's like a $300.00 power cable for your amplifier. A $10.00 one would perform/taste just as well. (Maybe a little more $$ for the steak, but no more than $25.00)

What's the point of flawless diamonds? What about a nicely tailored suit? What about a painted canvas?
I hate it when people call all timepieces a status symbol. A Panerai is a status symbol. A Patek Philippe is not. The Patek has 150+ years of tradition under it's belt and is a fine piece of craftsmanship that looks pretty on your wrist. The Panerai is just a FOTM.
 
Yes, I am sure a choice sirloin tastes just like a slab of Wagyu. Good point. 

 

[Arc6]

The first words out of my mouth when reading your title were "Yeah, right."
 
There is a notable difference when listening to the Beatles on good cans IMO. I would try comparing the mono vs. stereo productions they had though. Some of the mono actually sounds better to some.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

The Blancpain watch: chances are, if its anything like a Rolex, you can get a more accurate watch by walking into Walmart and dropping $10.00 on a digital made-in-China special. So what you're going for with a timepiece like this is 100% status symbol. Now' I'm sure the headphones you wear confer a certain "status" within the audiophile community, but my experience is that most audiophiles buy stuff that they believe performs exquisitely, and indeed will often overlook "utilitarian" design if the sound merits it (i.e. Grado Labs stuff)
 
Finally, the $400.00 steak: this one, I'd wager is pure snake oil. The least justifiable purchase. It's like a $300.00 power cable for your amplifier. A $10.00 one would perform/taste just as well. (Maybe a little more $$ for the steak, but no more than $25.00)

What's the point of flawless diamonds? What about a nicely tailored suit? What about a painted canvas?
I hate it when people call all timepieces a status symbol. A Panerai is a status symbol. A Patek Philippe is not. The Patek has 150+ years of tradition under it's belt and is a fine piece of craftsmanship that looks pretty on your wrist. The Panerai is just a FOTM.
 
Yes, I am sure a choice sirloin tastes just like a slab of Wagyu. Good point. 

Explain to me how a Petek is not a status symbol?
 
OTOH, if you're actually using a Citizen or Seiko (or other reasonably priced for the performance) dive watch in its intended function...

 

[mralexosborn]

I am not saying a Patek is not a status symbol, I am saying it is wrong to reduce such a thing to those terms. A Ferrari is a status symbol, yes, but you wouldn't scoff at it. 

 

[epocs]

Sure, a patek is definitely a status symbol. Any high-end time piece is, considering the ridiculously cheap substitutes there are.
In fact, a patek, rolex, jaeger, etc won't even be as accurate, will probably require much more maintenance, and is probably more uncomfortable due to the heavy weight of a mechanical watch.
 
However... it is also a piece of history, a work of fine craftmanship, a beauty. In fact, I'd say that even if I had my shirt cuff covering my omega everyday of my life with no one noticing my watch, I'd still call it a smart buy and a pleasure to own.  Hell, analagous to if I had an amazingly gorgeous woman at home, and I wouldn't care if I never get to go out with her and show her around, just as long as I know she's the one I come home to everyday.

 

[Arc6]

Dude, a Ferrari isn't a status symbol. It is a piece of automotive art with a perfect balance of form and function. Some people take vintage Ferrais and have them reassembled in their homes as a piece of art. If you want a status symbol, you get a Bentley. If you want function, you mod a supra to a 10 sec. But Ferraris in terms of headphones and Beatles would be like having John Lennon and George Harrison resurrected to play with Ringo and Paul in your living room.
 
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I am not saying a Patek is not a status symbol, I am saying it is wrong to reduce such a thing to those terms. A Ferrari is a status symbol, yes, but you wouldn't scoff at it. 

 

[mralexosborn]

So why does this "perfect balance of form and function" need more maintenance and babying than anything else? Not so great gas mileage either. The Patek of the automotive world, I think. This is not downing Ferrari at all, I understand they are the epitome of engineering.
Just as a Ferrari is a Patek, a Subaru is a G-Shock. I really hope this discussion doesn't get out of hand. XD

 

[Arc6]

Look. If you want low maintenance, go buy a Civic. And the reason the gas mileage is so low is beacuse of a massive engine that swallows an amount of gasoline equivalent to a decomposed dinosaur baby. By fucntion I mean all the cylinders firing in perfect harmony to allow your Pirelli Tires to rip off asphalt and not the other way around.
 
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So why does this "perfect balance of form and function" need more maintenance and babying than anything else? Not so great gas mileage either. The Patek of the automotive world, I think. This is not downing Ferrari at all, I understand they are the epitome of engineering.
Just as a Ferrari is a Patek, a Subaru is a G-Shock. I really hope this discussion doesn't get out of hand. XD

 

[9pintube]

Just to add a little humor to the facts, How Else would I have heard "I Bury PAUL"........I've also listened to the Beatles since 1963  and was lucky enough to see them (couldn't hear them for all the girls screaming) plus the fact that all they had were their amps, back in the day.......But as one poster said listen to the mono mixes or even the German/ Japanese imports and you'd be amazed.......Plus IMO the better playback equipment you have will let you hear everything that was recorded in the early yrs.(like a history lesson)...But when you get to "Rubber Soul" and beyond there is no doubt they were (along with George Martin) LIGHT YEARS a head of anyone, with their multitrack, overdubbing, recording instruments played backwards etc.etc............even on an Ipod with earbuds all the way to the BIG BUCK RIGGS, It's there!!!..........Can you tell the Beatles changed my life????

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Yeah, the epitome of engineering is the Camry and the Civic; the 328i and the Ferrari F1 car.  It takes more engineering skill to make production cars mass produceable - the innovation going on to make the best production cars is incredible.  The Ferrari F1 car gets mentioned because, generally speaking, it's the very best there is at going around arbitrary tarmac loops, bar none.
 
Anyway, my point was that Patek watches et al. go so far above the normal duty of a watch (or whatever object it is you'd like to talk about) that it doesn't necessarily even do its job better - in fact, the primary purpose has moved from "telling time" or "transportation to the grocery store" to something entirely different - the primary purpose is as a generic luxury good.
 
I'm not sure if we've really hit that point with headphones - yes, I'm sure there are some that buy the HD 800 (certainly not any of the orthos) primarily as a luxury good, but certainly not like the high-end home speaker market which perhaps more often than not is about fashion.

 
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Look. If you want low maintenance, go buy a Civic. And the reason the gas mileage is so low is beacuse of a massive engine that swallows an amount of gasoline equivalent to a decomposed dinosaur baby. By fucntion I mean all the cylinders firing in perfect harmony to allow your Pirelli Tires to rip off asphalt and not the other way around.
 
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So why does this "perfect balance of form and function" need more maintenance and babying than anything else? Not so great gas mileage either. The Patek of the automotive world, I think. This is not downing Ferrari at all, I understand they are the epitome of engineering.
Just as a Ferrari is a Patek, a Subaru is a G-Shock. I really hope this discussion doesn't get out of hand. XD

 

 

[Shike]

Quote:

Try listening to Bill Evans live at the Village Vanguard through a vintage Stax rig. Absolutely lovely.
 
I would if they didn't consistently go up in smoke.  Any vintage Stax I touch might as well be cursed.
 
As for expensive headphones, the HD-800s only (measurably) matched the Sony R10s in capability and they were released in 1989.
 
Didn't the R10's have large amounts of THD when Tyll measured them?

One of the benefits of headphones today I think is cone materials for dynamics.  You can now get extremely low distortion headphones at a fraction of the cost.

 

[dsf3g]

Quote:

The Blancpain watch: chances are, if its anything like a Rolex, you can get a more accurate watch by walking into Walmart and dropping $10.00 on a digital made-in-China special. So what you're going for with a timepiece like this is 100% status symbol. Now' I'm sure the headphones you wear confer a certain "status" within the audiophile community, but my experience is that most audiophiles buy stuff that they believe performs exquisitely, and indeed will often overlook "utilitarian" design if the sound merits it (i.e. Grado Labs stuff)
 
Finally, the $400.00 steak: this one, I'd wager is pure snake oil. The least justifiable purchase. It's like a $300.00 power cable for your amplifier. A $10.00 one would perform/taste just as well. (Maybe a little more $$ for the steak, but no more than $25.00)

What's the point of flawless diamonds? What about a nicely tailored suit? What about a painted canvas?
I hate it when people call all timepieces a status symbol. A Panerai is a status symbol. A Patek Philippe is not. The Patek has 150+ years of tradition under it's belt and is a fine piece of craftsmanship that looks pretty on your wrist. The Panerai is just a FOTM.
 
Yes, I am sure a choice sirloin tastes just like a slab of Wagyu. Good point. 

Of course it's a status symbol. Diamonds, flawless or otherwise, are the perfect examples of something that functions as a mere status symbol (except when they're used as an easy way of laundering money, then they're purely utilitarian.)
 
Now, I understand that one can appreciate these objects for their instrinsic beauty, craftsmanship, etc. And if you do, then, more power to you.
 
But this really is immaterial to my original question which was: based solely on sound fidelity, does it make sense to buy cutting edge equipment to listen to older recordings.
 
Finally, as for that steak: I'd love to see some double-blind testing comparing a $400 steak to a $25 steak, cooked the same way.