[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

And does it sound different when the sound is coming from a 4s or a iPod?(touch or nano) or any other devices?

It will be the best analog audio signal the apple product(s) is able to make.
The apple products like the iPod do not come with a way to add a (better?) DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) to the audio stream.
To add a DAC to something, there has to be a digital output, like USB, optical or coaxial, which your iPod does not have.
So the DAC built into the apple product(s) is the one you have to use.
All you can do is use the L cable connected to the LOD port, which allows you to bypass the apple products built in amplifier
(amplifiers can add noise to an analog signal) to carry the analog audio signal from the apple product to the best amplifier your willing to buy.
It's best to use only one amplifier, if you daisy chain amplifiers (iPod's and E11's), each one is going to add a little noise to the signal.
Hopefully this helps you understand better what's going on.
 
 
 

 

[Gryphus0204]

It will be the best analog audio signal the apple product(s) is able to make.
The apple products like the iPod do not come with a way to add a (better?) DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) to the audio stream.
To add a DAC to something, there has to be a digital output, like USB, optical or coaxial, which your iPod does not have.
So the DAC built into the apple product(s) is the one you have to use.
All you can do is use the L cable connected to the LOD port, which allows you to bypass the apple products built in amplifier
(amplifiers can add noise to an analog signal) to carry the analog audio signal from the apple product to the best amplifier your willing to buy.
It's best to use only one amplifier, if you daisy chain amplifiers, each one is going to add a little noise to the signal.
Hopefully this helps you understand better what's going on.
 
 
 

So are you trying to say that the iPhone 4s shouldn't be use with a amp??

 

[uku383]

Hi there
 
I think that the advice for the iPod is:

1. use an LOD (this disengages the iPod's amp - it is useless while the LOD is connected); and
2. use an amp, portable or otherwise (this will do a much better job than the iPod's internal amp, which you are bypassing).

 
Other points are:

1. do not use a DAC with an iPod - the iPod has an internal DAC that cannot be bypassed, so any external DAC will have no effect; and
2. there are some products that are both a portable amp and a DAC. You only need to buy one of these if you plan to listen to music, videos etc from a computer because in those cases you can turn the DAC on as well as the amp to get a better sound.

 
Does this help?

 

[uku383]

Oops, sorry - misread your message.
 
My understanding is that the iPhone4s has a DAC that, like the iPod, can't be bypassed.
 
So, for the iPhone you only need to buy the amp and not the DAC.
 
Hmmm... might cut down on the coffee now.... 

 

[omerbu1]

My suggestion?
Portable? Get Fiio E11+L9
want something more verstile for desktop use? Fiio E17+fiio l3
 

 

[uku383]

 
A lot of people rave about the E17 - very affordable with stacks of features.
 
Haven't tried it myself, although I'm thinking about moving to an amp/DAC since I'm starting to listen through my laptop a bit.
 
I'm leaning more towards something like the Leckerton UHA-4. Sounds like it would be a great little unit and excellent value at $199, and some say better than the Headstage Arrow.
 
So much choice though - it's easy to get carried away!
 
Has anyone compared the E17 to the Leckerton? I haven't found a thread, but don't want to start one just because my search skills are underdeveloped.
 
 

 

[Brooko]

OP - Lots of info so far in this thread that is either confusing, ill-advised, or totally incorrect IMO.
 
Lets have a look at the basics .....
 

• You can actually extract a digital signal from an iPod (and therefore completely bypass it's DAC).  There are only a few devices licensed by Apple to do it though - and these are pretty expensive (CLAS and Fostex HP-P1 are the most popular).  If you went this route, you are effectively using the iPod as a digital transport only - then adding a DAC and amp.
   
• The iPhone 4/4S has a pretty good DAC already.  The only ones choosing to bypass it will be those who are looking to squeeze the last little bit they can out of their systems.  Most of the time, those using a CLAS or HP-P1 will be using them on one of the iPod Classics anyway.
   
• The headphone out (IMO) on the iPhone4/4S is actually pretty good also.  To my ears it is very clean - albeit a touch analytical - not what I would call warm.  Unless you are running hard to drive headphones that need a power boost to achieve their optimal sonic signature - you're really wasting your time with an amp.  It's just more gear to lug around.  Possible needs for an amp (with iP4/4S):
   - IEMs that suffer from hissing (unlikely with the iP4)
   - low sensitivity cans that require more power
   - high impedence cans that require more power
   - looking to colour the output - by adding warmth etc (eg bass boost)
  
  To back this up - I own two portable amps currently - the E11 and the PortaTube.  I have both primarily to drive my HD600s, but I do use both occasionally with my MS1is as well - mainly for colouration (bass boost and warmth on the E11 and warmth/tube sound from the PortaTube).  I rarely use an amp for my HM5 or B2 - as they don't need it, and adding a LOD and amp detracts from portability.
   
• If you do decide that you want to use an amp / need to use an amp, THEN for an iPod, you'll want to use a LOD as well.  The LOD takes an analogue 'line-level' signal out of the dock - bypassing the iP4 internal amp.  By doing this, you avoid double amping - which has the possibility of  introducing unwanted noise.

 
Until you actually explain what headphones you are using, and what you are trying to get from an amp (eg colouration), it is impossible for anyone here to make recommendations etc.
 
I hope this helps.
 
If you advise which headphones you'll be using, and why you think you need an amp, then you'll get more specific assistance.

 

[Gryphus0204]

How about a E6? I see the price of the E6 and E11 being about 3 times more... How do these two compare

 

[bowei006]

Thanks brooko i was just about to add that the dac can actually be bypassed by clas or hp1 and another i think. But its not a solution for everyone as its $500+

 

[bixby]

bravo brooko.......................................the truth!

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

How about a E6? I see the price of the E6 and E11 being about 3 times more... How do these two compare

Send an email to Fiio, see what their sale rep. has to say.
I'm sure the E11 would have a better headphone amplifier then the E6.
 
P.S. sorry I did not tell you about the $500 DAC that you can use with the iPod, someone else on this thread thought it was something that was important for you to know  about.
 
 
 

 

[Hellenback]

Brooko makes very good points re your set-up and needs.
 
Quote:

and some say better than the Headstage Arrow.

 
I've owned the Lekerton and even the 1G Arrow sounded better to me and it's way more portable. The new 4G has even better SQ and allows for bass and treble adjustment. I've not seen/heard another amp with the sound quality and portability/convenience features of the Arrow.
It drives IEMs and full sized headphones equally well and I use it with HD650s and Turbine coppers. If you really need a one box DAC/amp then the Arrow won't do it for you (unless you get the DAC cable as well). I use the 5.5 gen iPod with the Wolfson DAC chip so the SQ is pretty good with a LOD
 
I've posted this pic elsewhere on Head-fi as I think most are unaware of just how thin/portable the Arrow is. For me portability is a big deal with a portable amp

iPod/Arrow/case = 1"  (1.15" if you count the leather strap).
 

 
 

 

[Gryphus0204]

 
I've owned the Lekerton and even the 1G Arrow sounded better to me and it's way more portable. The new 4G has even better SQ and allows for bass and treble adjustment. I've not seen/heard another amp with the sound quality and portability/convenience features of the Arrow.
It drives IEMs and full sized headphones equally well and I use it with HD650s and Turbine coppers. If you really need a one box DAC/amp then the Arrow won't do it for you (unless you get the DAC cable as well). I use the 5.5 gen iPod with the Wolfson DAC chip so the SQ is pretty good with a LOD
 
I've posted this pic elsewhere on Head-fi as I think most are unaware of just how thin/portable the Arrow is. For me portability is a big deal with a portable amp

iPod/Arrow/case = 1"  (1.15" if you count the leather strap).
 

 
 

Whats the full model of the arrow portable amp? And is it sold online? And the arrow is better than the Fiio E6 or E11 right?

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

Whats the full model of the arrow portable amp? And is it sold online? And the arrow is better than the Fiio E6 or E11 right?

http://www.headstage.com/The-Arrow-Amp/Headstage-Arrow-12HE-4G::10144.html
 
US $299
 
Going back to my original questions .......
 
What headphones are you driving?
What reason do you have for needing an amp (ie what are you expecting to gain from using one)?
 

 

[Gryphus0204]

I was planning to buy an amp for the v-moda m-100 which is comming up soon