Lets Talk Metal
Nov 3, 2018 at 1:31 PM Post #27,211 of 28,896

SomeGuyDude

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I think it'd help if "loudness" and "bigger range" were defined because otherwise that post was just word salad.
 
Nov 3, 2018 at 3:04 PM Post #27,212 of 28,896

matti621

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They just don't have anywhere near the fidelity and imaging/soundstage ability of my headphone system
Denon aren't exactly known for their soundstage... I have high-end cans and middle grade speakers. The headphones reproduce better high frequencies, but in therms of soundstage my speakers eat them for breakfast. I can far better tell apart which instruments are playing along in the background.
 
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Nov 3, 2018 at 7:38 PM Post #27,213 of 28,896

SomeGuyDude

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Denon aren't exactly known for their soundstage... I have high-end cans and middle grade speakers. The headphones reproduce better high frequencies, but in therms of soundstage my speakers eat them for breakfast. I can far better tell apart which instruments are playing along in the background.

I dunno how to tell you this but the soundstage on ALL speakers is gonna be way beyond headphones...
 
Nov 3, 2018 at 8:29 PM Post #27,214 of 28,896

Zenvota

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I dunno how to tell you this but the soundstage on ALL speakers is gonna be way beyond headphones...

I'd suggest giving Out of Your Head(see sig) a try. Just need to eq your headphones flat, but it's a really amazing virtual loudspeaker experience.
 
Nov 3, 2018 at 8:53 PM Post #27,215 of 28,896

SomeGuyDude

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I'd suggest giving Out of Your Head(see sig) a try. Just need to eq your headphones flat, but it's a really amazing virtual loudspeaker experience.

I've done virtual surround and it sure is cool as hell but I mean just realistically headphones will never have as big of a soundstage as speakers by simple physics for the same way open-back headphones will sound bigger than IEMs.
 
Nov 3, 2018 at 10:00 PM Post #27,216 of 28,896

Redcarmoose

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While not metal?
 
Nov 3, 2018 at 11:01 PM Post #27,217 of 28,896

Zenvota

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Nov 4, 2018 at 9:40 AM Post #27,219 of 28,896

markm1

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This is a headphone forum so it’s likely to get people with preferences to headphones. The reality is for a couple thousand in headphone equipment you can get sound equal to a $60K speaker rig. Hearing metal on a great stereo dialed in for the genre is special. It’s just really really hard to get metal exactly right with a stereo. It’s the opposite of what you would think, as the guy at the stereo shop can get Steely Dan to sound good on a bunch of systems. And most audiophiles view Steely Dan as more technical of a recording than metal, but I beg to differ. Metal takes talent to put together a great system. A good metal system will also do classic rock well. But it’s not as simple as just buying any equipment out there. It’s funny because some systems do jazz well, others vocal music. But when you finally get a good metal stereo together and have it set up right, you will know, because it’s involving.


Hey Redcar,
I haven't posted here in a long time, but I get this thread sent to my email that I put in a separate folder and go trough it from time time. I always read your posts when I'm here and you gave me some great DM back in the day. Vader! Thought I'd chime in as I've also had the dangest time getting my two channel system to sound right with metal. I've got a small room and a Nuprime DAC/Pre with a pretty good HP amp that I use with my speakers as well. I finally got a used LCD-3 and called it a day, but the stereo is a different story. It sounds good with some metal and not other albums.

There's a lot that goes into it as you say. For me the biggest challenge is the low end. I've gone through several speakers, and now I'm back to pretty sizable bookshelves that have a lot of low end and I have to control the boom. Eventually, I'll look into room treatments for absorption (bass traps, etc.) or a sub to take over low end duties and balance it all out. But, yeah, it's been a pain in the ass. So sometimes, I say screw it and put on the Lcd 3s and then I don't have to worry about room acoustics and the rest. But for something with real low end thump-hard doom, some DM, etc. the speakers are the only thing that give me the impact I want if I can control the low-it tends to bleed.....

Also for technical metal and with music that has a lot of insanity going in-complexity and confused sounds-then my HPs will sometimes sort out -separate maybe?-the sounds better than the speakers which have trouble making all the pieces in something with a lot of moving parts -make sense to my ears. An example would be the new Hate Eternal album that has that wall of sound. Speakers at this point work best for that, Nile, etc.
 
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Nov 4, 2018 at 10:25 AM Post #27,220 of 28,896

Redcarmoose

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Hey Redcar,
I haven't posted here in a long time, but I get this thread sent to my email that I put in a separate folder and go trough it from time time. I always read your posts when I'm here and you gave me some great DM back in the day. Vader! Thought I'd chime in as I've also had the dangest time getting my two channel system to sound right with metal. I've got a small room and a Nuprime DAC/Pre with a pretty good HP amp that I use with my speakers as well. I finally got a used LCD-3 and called it a day, but the stereo is a different story. It sounds good with some metal and not other albums.

There's a lot that goes into it as you say. For me the biggest challenge is the low end. I've gone through several speakers, and now I'm back to pretty sizable bookshelves that have a lot of low end and I have to control the boom. Eventually, I'll look into room treatments for absorption (bass traps, etc.) or a sub to take over low end duties and balance it all out. But, yeah, it's been a pain in the ass. So sometimes, I say screw it and put on the Lcd 3s and then I don't have to worry about room acoustics and the rest. But for something with real low end thump-hard doom, some DM, etc. the speakers are the only thing that give me the impact I want if I can control the low-it tends to bleed.....

Also for technical metal and with music that has a lot of insanity going in-complexity and confused sounds-then my HPs will sometimes sort out -separate maybe?-the sounds better than the speakers which have trouble making all the pieces in something with a lot of moving parts -make sense to my ears. An example would be the new Hate Eternal album that has that wall of sound. Speakers at this point work best for that, Nile, etc.



Great post! Nothing is ever perfect a I guess, just perfect listening sessions periodically? I actually don’t even have a great metal 2 channel speaker rig now. Though I do have silly big speakers, and they are fun, but not totally perfect. I’m probably too much into headphones now.

My best metal stereo I had at 18-19. And it was just luck. There was this music store that specialized in all kinds of musical equipment. This was also way before the idea of mini-storage. So these older guys would for whatever reason would drop stuff off for storage. It was a safe place so amazing stuff would show up. We actually didn’t know why the stuff was dropped off and didn’t ask.

Finally these giant speakers showed up and after about three months the owner asked me if I wanted them. I told him that I had no money, but he just laughed and asked for me to make payments. They were two Cerwin Vega 15” per cabinet with a horn tweeter in the middle. They were about 4.5 feet tall and 2.5 feet across. Totally amazing but difficult to take along a whole life time.

I’m no expert at 2 channel speaker rigs, but I have purchased and installed them for friends. My biggest surprise was how different each house/room reacts. The difference between wood floors and cement floors. Thinking stuff wasn’t ever going to ever work out and then it did.

Going to see live music is the same, it’s often a compromise for the overall sound, just the best they can do with the area and equipment. But of course when they have the money and technical know how and nail it, it’s great.

Vader................. the most consistent of Death Metal.

But getting back to listening, don’t you think the human equation is also a big part of the variables. I mean how can the same stereo or headphone system sound different all the time? I mean most of the time it’s in the middle, but of course those times when everything sounds really good, or when it’s wrong. Lol

We think it’s the equipment..........we try and look at why, but it’s like brain chemistry or something? Same with music, the album you loved last year sounds wrong, or something you hated is great? What’s with that? Lol

 
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Nov 4, 2018 at 1:01 PM Post #27,221 of 28,896

hemipowered007

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Great post! Nothing is ever perfect a I guess, just perfect listening sessions periodically? I actually don’t even have a great metal 2 channel speaker rig now. Though I do have silly big speakers, and they are fun, but not totally perfect. I’m probably too much into headphones now.

My best metal stereo I had at 18-19. And it was just luck. There was this music store that specialized in all kinds of musical equipment. This was also way before the idea of mini-storage. So these older guys would for whatever reason would drop stuff off for storage. It was a safe place so amazing stuff would show up. We actually didn’t know why the stuff was dropped off and didn’t ask.

Finally these giant speakers showed up and after about three months the owner asked me if I wanted them. I told him that I had no money, but he just laughed and asked for me to make payments. They were two Cerwin Vega 15” per cabinet with a horn tweeter in the middle. They were about 4.5 feet tall and 2.5 feet across. Totally amazing but difficult to take along a whole life time.

I’m no expert at 2 channel speaker rigs, but I have purchased and installed them for friends. My biggest surprise was how different each house/room reacts. The difference between wood floors and cement floors. Thinking stuff wasn’t ever going to ever work out and then it did.

Going to see live music is the same, it’s often a compromise for the overall sound, just the best they can do with the area and equipment. But of course when they have the money and technical know how and nail it, it’s great.

Vader................. the most consistent of Death Metal.

But getting back to listening, don’t you think the human equation is also a big part of the variables. I mean how can the same stereo or headphone system sound different all the time? I mean most of the time it’s in the middle, but of course those times when everything sounds really good, or when it’s wrong. Lol

We think it’s the equipment..........we try and look at why, but it’s like brain chemistry or something? Same with music, the album you loved last year sounds wrong, or something you hated is great? What’s with that? Lol



I love igorrr on my ex1000, better on the he4 but still. Never thought I would end up getting into that artist, just so random, but it's fun to listen to for sure. As far as speakrrs go it can be really tough to get a room right, and then if you change the speakers youre back to tinkering. I bought a house with all original hardwood floors so now I'm really screwed, but, that's what headphones are for! I have little kids anyways, so even if I got something right they would shift everything enough to where it's wrong.
Gotta grab the new Ocean and Pyscroptic albums today before I forget.
 
Nov 4, 2018 at 1:54 PM Post #27,222 of 28,896

Zenvota

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An example would be the new Hate Eternal album that has that wall of sound.

Rutan quadruple tracks the rhythm guitars...
 
Nov 4, 2018 at 2:51 PM Post #27,223 of 28,896

Zenvota

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Vader................. the most consistent of Death Metal.

Nooo it's definitely Sentenced. Killing me killing you killing all we have.
 
Nov 4, 2018 at 9:42 PM Post #27,224 of 28,896

markm1

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Great post! Nothing is ever perfect a I guess, just perfect listening sessions periodically? I actually don’t even have a great metal 2 channel speaker rig now. Though I do have silly big speakers, and they are fun, but not totally perfect. I’m probably too much into headphones now.

My best metal stereo I had at 18-19. And it was just luck. There was this music store that specialized in all kinds of musical equipment. This was also way before the idea of mini-storage. So these older guys would for whatever reason would drop stuff off for storage. It was a safe place so amazing stuff would show up. We actually didn’t know why the stuff was dropped off and didn’t ask.

But getting back to listening, don’t you think the human equation is also a big part of the variables. I mean how can the same stereo or headphone system sound different all the time? I mean most of the time it’s in the middle, but of course those times when everything sounds really good, or when it’s wrong. Lol

We think it’s the equipment..........we try and look at why, but it’s like brain chemistry or something? Same with music, the album you loved last year sounds wrong, or something you hated is great? What’s with that? Lol



Indeed-We think it's science, but it's also art and there's opinion and subjectivity. It's a hobby as they say-haha
 
Nov 4, 2018 at 9:55 PM Post #27,225 of 28,896

SomeGuyDude

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I feel like if it were science it wouldn't be nearly so enjoyable. Without that subjectivity we lose our personal connection. That we can't all agree on how it sounds best or even what "best" would constitute is why this is such a wonderful hobby to be in.
 

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