[rsaavedra]

Your red herring is totally out of line. If we are going to have a healthy discussion about environmental hazars vs. technological challenges, stick to the point. Rather odd to have politics and socialism in your mind when talking about these issues.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra Rather odd to have politics and socialism in your mind when talking about these issues.

It's not odd at all, the politicians are the people responsible for implementing all this legislation (most of it unnecessary) so why is it "odd" ?

I mean some of the stuff they come up with is just pure crazy and it's costing manufacturers a lot of money putting the Eurocrats legislation into practice, it seems that all the European parliament does is "legislate" or "ban"

An example, a drunk French man came home from "le pub" and plugged 2 banana plugs into the mains outlet and electrocuted himself. Immediately the European parliament banned the sale of banana plugs in Europe.

Now I could quite easily get drunk and stab myself with a kitchen knife... does this mean kitchen knives should be banned because they could cause injury? If I sever my main artery falling through a glass window does that mean glass should be banned? Some of their legislation is just pure hypocrisy and some of it just plain stupid.

European Parliament: Warning this product may contain nuts.

 

[Alick]

Perhaps it's not odd to have politics in mind when discussing beaurocray, but I'm not sure what any of this has to do with socialism, or why socialism would be considered an "economically desastrous[sic] ideology." The British economy seems to be doing relatively well at the moment after two terms of Labour (whisper it - nominally socialist) government.

 

[rsaavedra]

We are talking about a specific subject matter that no doubt politicians, as well as everyone, can make choices and decisions about. Politicians do rule and have a big saying in public policy matters. That's nothing new under the Sun. We are not talking about any political preferences. Pretending to find analogies to political sides to the issues under discussion here is cheap rhetorical red herring.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra We are talking about a specific subjec matter that no doubt politicians, as well as everyone can make choices and decisions about. Politicians do rule and have a big saying in public policy matters. That's nothing new under the Sun. We are not talking about any political preferences. Pretending to find analogies to political sides to the issues under discussion here is cheap rhetorical red herring.

[size=medium]lead free solder reliability warning / another Euro blunder? [/size]

This thread asks if lead free solder is "safe" or is this another "Euro blunder"

It doesn't ask if leaded solder is dangerous or how to go about safely disposing of lead.

I understand cosmopragma to have meant that from a distance, environmentalism (no matter what it costs) might "sound" like a good idea however, in reality, literally thousands of often unnecessary or inefficient restrictions and subsidies are already crippling our economies, lead-free solder is only the newest addition.

I'd tend to agree with that and I think that banning leaded solder is yet another huge Euro blunder. These are the same people who tried to prevent UK crisp companies from calling their cheese and onion flavoured crisps "cheese and onion"

It's across the board, from the aroma therapy industry http://www.aromamedical.com/articles/mlx249.html to protecting our hearing.

Beethoven’s 9th off limits in EU noise plan:

"Musicians are fighting to be exempted from a European Union directive to reduce workplace noise levels which will require hundreds of pieces of classical music to be played more quietly or not at all..."
(The Times, 12 February 2002)

Barmy EU plans pub noise ban:

"Potty EU bureaucrats want to ban music and loud chatter from pubs and clubs – by bringing in a strict noise ban..."
(The Sun, 11 Febru ary 2002)

EU’re not singing:

"Pubs showing England's World Cup games this summer could be forced to keep the noise down under crazy new European rules. A killjoy EU directive has set a maximum of 87 decibels. It is meant to protect workers but pub bosses are worried it will ruin the atmosphere in their boozers..."
(Sunday People, 20 January 2002)

Work behind a bar? You have to wear earmuffs:

"Bar staff should wear earmuffs, according to an extraordinary proposal by an Euro-MP..."
(Daily Mail, 24 January 2002)

Brussels clobbers clubbers:

"Barmy Eurocrats are bringing in new laws which mean night-clubbers will have to wear earplugs – to protect them against dance music! Bouncers and bar staff will have to be ready to hand out protectors and tell punters to put them in if DJs spin noisy tracks..."
(News of the World, 3 March 2002)

Speak up ref, I’ve got ear plugs on me head - Euro MP in barmy bid to protect footballers from crowd noise:

"Football players could soon be ordered to wear ear plugs to protect them from the roar of the crowd. And guess who is considering this momentous decision? Why those lovers of straight bananas, the European Parliament, of course. The idea raises the prospect of David Beckham and team-mates playing marathon matches due to not hearing the final whistle. And cries like "On me head son" will go unheard. … Noise at big football games can top 110 [decibels]..."
(Daily Express, 13 March 2002)

This will eventually include headphones... they've already managed to limit the output of walkmans to "protect" your hearing.... Europe is a nanny state.

So, we are to feel confident in the knowledge that the European parliament has deemed lead free solder "safe" ?????

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd I understand cosmopragma to have meant that from a distance, environmentalism (no matter what it costs) might "sound" like a good idea however, in reality...

Ah, that's a totally different statement, much cleaner. You are not saying, "might sound like a good idea, as socialism did to some intelligent people some generations ago", which is what he said before, a totally out of line comment.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra Ah, that's a totally different statement, much cleaner. You are not saying, "might sound like a good idea, as socialism did to some intelligent people some generations ago", which is what he said before, a totally out of line comment.

I don't wish to upset the European directive on xenophobia or "languageism" but Cosmopragma is German and I always give people who's native language is not English the benefit of the doubt........ I can't speak a word of German and maybe Cosmopragma didn't intend that to come across as it did to you? I read his post, taking into account the language barrier, and can't see anything wrong with it rsaavedra...... He made a very good point.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd I don't wish to upset the European directive on xenophobia or "languageism" but Cosmopragma is German and I always give people who's native language is not English the benefit of the doubt........ I can't speak a word of German and maybe Cosmopragma didn't intend that to come across as it did to you? I read his post, taking into account the language barrier, and can't see anything wrong with it rsaavedra...... He made a very good point.

I wouldn't have guessed he is German, and I would say his English is much better than mine. English is not my native language either, but critical thinking and argumentation are topics I've studied to some extent and have lots of interest in. Both in English and Spanish, I think I can accurately spot certain kinds of rhetoric in an argument.

 

[cosmopragma]

Thank you, PinkFloyd.You did me a favour while I was offline and I swear that I'll never mention again your fart thread or the Dickmann affair.

Add a cultural gap to the language barrier.
Most central and eastern europeans are totally aware of an in the beginning appealing historic ideology which failed due to it's lacking economical wisdom.
Forget that I stupidly used socialism as an example for a desastrous ideology if executed to the extreme.
The term seems to have a more than slightly different meaning here where the term was invented and in the english speaking world which never suffered under the reign of executed socialism.Calling the contemporary british labour party a "socialistic" party seems odd to me, AFAIK they are not planning to expropriate and to kill entrepreneurs.
What I wanted to say was that modern european institutionalized environmentalism looks more and more like an ideology leading to unbalanced decisions.
If only half what Captain Scarlett predicts comes true we are facing something like 50 billion Euro of direct and indirect expenses for a negligible positive effect onto the environment and our health.
For such an amount we could at example easily "buy" any rain forest on this planet, lots of baksheesh for the involved local politicians and regular paychecks forever for the inhabitants of the forests.Monetary compensation would guarantee good local care for the forests, their income source.

This time I wanted to ask my Frisco based sister for help in order to avoid further confusion, but she's at work and so you have to live with the writing of the lingually challenged cosmopragma.

 

[Alick]

Quote:

The term seems to have a more than slightly different meaning here where the term was invented

Quote:

Calling the contemporary british labour party a "socialistic" party seems odd to me, AFAIK they are not planning to expropriate and to kill entrepreneurs.

Sorry to stay OT and labour the point (no pun intended), but the misuse of "socialism" is a constant irritant to me. AFAIAA, the term was not invented in Germany, but was first applied in the UK to describe to Owens theory of social reconstruction. It was misappropriated much later by the "National Socialists" in Germany but that is widely accepted as a corruption of the word.

Side-rant over, back to the main rant...

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alick Sorry to stay OT and labour the point (no pun intended), but the misuse of "socialism" is a constant irritant to me. AFAIAA, the term was not invented in Germany, but was first applied in the UK to describe to Owens theory of social reconstruction. It was misappropriated much later by the "National Socialists" in Germany but that is widely accepted as a corruption of the word. Side-rant over, back to the main rant...

You are totally right.
I don't want to give you a lesson about the early utopian french socialist philosophers and their british followers like Robert Owen and the takeover of the socialist movement by the Marxists, defining what the term meant during the second half of the nineteenth and the whole twentieth century.I guess that you already know more about this dead cult than me.
I must remember wrong that the "expropriation of expropriators" was prominently mentioned by Karl Marx in his writings.
I must have been told lies about my great grandfather Heinrich.
My father told me that he was killed by the Soviets for beeing a landlord.
My grandfather Paul was not expropriated and killed by east german officials for beeing an entrepreneur.
They did not kill my uncle Klaus for demanding freedom in public in 1956.
My father did not desperately leave his family and friends in 1957 at age 17, alone and without any ressources or contacts.
My cousin Gerd did not spend 5 years inside the infamous Bautzen prison for attempting to escape from the socialistic paradise.
You have theory, we have praxis.
I'm not interested anymore in discussing already defeated ideologicly motivated threats of the past , I'm interested in present and future threats to our freedom and economical prosperity.
Seems to me that any good idea, whether socialism or christianity or islam or environmentalism, taken to the extreme ends in a manmade hell, step by step.
The question is, beyond the solder legislation:
What can we do to prevent the next steps?
And another question:
Are your politicians also denying any responsibility most of the time, claiming that it's Brussels fault?
Maybe the EU is just another great idea totally going wrong.
Maybe there are too many layers of politics, lobbyism and theory between our reality and the EU officials.
And now for something completely different,
I'll listen now to the Stomu Yamashta CDs which arrived this morning, that should cure the mild depression I catched by thinking about the EU and our local hardcore environmentalists.

Edit: I just realized that this thread is located in the DIY forum, I thought it's in "Outside".At least I'm very good at making me to look like a fool.

 

[13405]

[deleted]

 

[Alick]

Quote:

the takeover of the socialist movement by the Marxists, defining what the term meant during the second half of the nineteenth and the whole twentieth century.

Last OT post from me, I promise (in this thread anyway). Context is all cosmopragma, and from your last post I appreciate where you are coming from and why Socialist suggests what it does to you. However, that definition is by no means universal. Coming from Scotland (which has a long tradition of left-leaning/socialist politics), socialism carried the original meaning here all through the twentieth century and still does today with the Scottish Socialist party holding seats in the parliament.
Quote:

Seems to me that any good idea, whether socialism or christianity or islam or environmentalism, taken to the extreme ends in a manmade hell, step by step.

I agree completely and that I believe had more to do with what was wrong in the Soviet Bloc than corrupted versions of socialism or even communism. Extremes of all ideas seem to me to meet in the same place.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oli I personally feel that it will not be as clean cut as pinkfloyd is making it out to be (everything all of a sudden breaking after short periods etc)

I'm not saying that, I'm asking if Graham Slee's prediction will come to pass?

 

[tkerby]

Could I refer you all to the following article: Long Term Mechanical Reliability with Lead-Free Solders

You can sign up for a free trial on this site allowing you to download 5 articles free of charge. The article fully investigates 'tin pest' formation and other issues surrounding a number of new alloys. Some of the pictures are quite disturbing