[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonhanjk In the current transition phase from leaded to lead-free will definately be problematic. After that will be smooth sailing. Why would anyone want to believe in unproven theory. Pipes using lead for the past 100 years, c'mon, you expect me to believe that? Steel was the metal that was widely use since 100 years ago when the industrial age began in UK. Why steel? BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER THAN LEAD!!! Which nation holds the highest record of longevity? It is Japan. Now guess what they use to transfer water to their home.

Excuse me. The UK water supply was / is supplied to the home through lead pipes.... they are gradually changing them for the plasic jobs. When they were originally installed the UK still had an empire so cost was not an issue.

The water tasted a "lot" better through lead and run out of the taps ice cold on a boiling hot day. The plastic pipes make the water taste stale like bottled water and the water doesn't stay cool on a warm day.

And, lead pipes have been used in the UK water supply system since the Roman times... not just for 100 years.

 

[cosmopragma]

Title of a future dissertation :
"The fall of Europe caused by environment friendly bureaucrats."
WTT: My location for your location.Has to be outside of Europe. No socialism, please.

 

[00940]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Our water was "delivered" to our homes through lead pipes since the Roman times.. it's only in recent years they have got round to replacing the lead pipes in favour of plastic ones.. people are living longer these days and todays 100 year olds probably consumed water from lead pipes for 90 of those years.

The health problems linked to the lead pipes are known since the sixties. Belgium too used those and if they were replaced at huge costs it's for extremely serious concerns about the effect of lead on the children's brains' developement. Make a search on "saturnism" in google. It's nothing like a joke.

The fact that people are living longer now is nowhere near a reason to support lead use.

 

[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Excuse me. The UK water supply was / is supplied to the home through lead pipes.... they are gradually changing them for the plasic jobs. When they were originally installed the UK still had an empire so cost was not an issue.

Plastic was an issue.

The argument that a certain technology has been used since decades or centuries does not hold water (no pun intended). Once it is proved dangerous for health and/or a better technology becomes available, its days are numbered.

 

[rsaavedra]

I don't think the consumer electronics industry in Europe will go all disposable in cold weather because of the lead-free move. Most likely the solder of choice will become a lead-free alloy that won't suffer the tin-desease problem. As mentioned, the ruling doesn't indicate the solder of choice will have to be the cheapest alternative, which happens to be the problematic one. While we can safely underestimate policy makers some times, I think we shouldn't underestimate all electronics related companies, engineers, and chemists.

 

[Nisbeth]

This does not only affect the european industry since all products marketed in Europe must comply with the directive. Asian and American manufacturers are equally affected if they want to export their products to the EU.

The main problem with lead-free solder is the higher soldering temperature required (= more stress on components) and the different flow of the solder (which in some instances requires new pcb-layouts with different footprints). The directive not only calls for the removal of lead in solder but also in componenets. I can assure you from my work (company that makes amplifier semi-manufactures), that both the suppliers and the customers are taking this very seriously. Customers are already asking if the products comply with the directive and all the suppliers have been given a deadline to confirm that their products (components of all sorts) are lead free (or will be before the deadline expires).


/U.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisbeth This does not only affect the european industry since all products marketed in Europe must comply with the directive. Asian and American manufacturers are equally affected if they want to export their products to the EU. The main problem with lead-free solder is the higher soldering temperature required (= more stress on components) and the different flow of the solder (which in some instances requires new pcb-layouts with different footprints). The directive not only calls for the removal of lead in solder but also in componenets. I can assure you from my work (company that makes amplifier semi-manufactures), that both the suppliers and the customers are taking this very seriously. Customers are already asking if the products comply with the directive and all the suppliers have been given a deadline to confirm that their products (components of all sorts) are lead free (or will be before the deadline expires).

Yep this isn't the "millenium bug" this is a real disaster about to happen unless people step forth to prevent the legislation becomming law.

 

[PinkFloyd]

This is a very serious topic and I suggest that you read Graham's article a few times........ at first glance it doesn't digest but after a few reads it makes perfect sense.

This is a really serious issue for "mankind's" future electronics existance on this earth and I hope Graham's words will be taken on board now and not reflected on in years to come as "if only they listened to Graham Slee".......

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn Plastic was an issue. The argument that a certain technology has been used since decades or centuries does not hold water (no pun intended). Once it is proved dangerous for health and/or a better technology becomes available, its days are numbered.

You are not getting the point....... "lead free solder" will prove disastrous across the board.... and Europe should rethink this legislation before it's too late.

 

[rsaavedra]

None is saying this isn't a serious topic. Graham's article and you guys are assuming the very worst alternative alloy will be the solder of choice for any large scale application that needs soldering joints. I seriously doubt that will be the case.

Once again, there are alternatives to lead-based solder that are reliable and currently used in the industry, and the cost might just get lower and the specs even better.

 

[13405]

do you think in 20 years time buying antique lead/tin/silver mix solder will be sold at a maaaaaasssive price to head-fi'ers?

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra I seriously doubt that will be the case.

I'd love to be positive and say I agree but China will use pure tin for sure.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oli do you think in 20 years time buying antique lead/tin/silver mix solder will be sold at a maaaaaasssive price to head-fi'ers?

The way things are going at the moment It will be illegal to "sell" in 20 years time let alone mention "lead"

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd I'd love to be positive and say I agree but China will use pure tin for sure.

What do you based that certainty on? In any case, Nisbeth post comes to the rescue. Products with lead-based soldering joints won't be allowed in Europe, so then there's nothing to worry about. Chinese manufacturing will have to upgrade their manufacturing processes if they want to sell in Europe. An if they use the cheapest alternative, well, it's a "free" market. You can buy what you want after all.

 

[chillysalsa]

Sometimes things get out of hand due to hype. EVERY element can be harmful to the human body in some way, just dig up the MSDS sheet for it and you'll be weary of coming into contact with di-hydrogen monoxide as they say.

But seriously, even plastic: there are so many plastics that we use in the kitchen (saran wrap, tupperware, etc.) that contain compounds which behave like endocrine in the human body. Then there's the whole dioxin scare. Now there is a lobby to ban chromium-6, because it is a carcinogen: thus no more hard-chrome plating will be done. Next they want to ban nickel because it irritates the human skin - but of course, that is merely an allergic reaction for a minority of people - hardly an environmental concern.

By 2010 we will have to make everything out of bamboo and wear fig leaves!