LCD-2, LCD-3, Owners and the Music They Love...
Jul 9, 2011 at 5:38 PM Post #421 of 1,111
..and the ground began to quake.
 
I know why you're saying that over here. You don't wanna get fed into the wood chipper like me. You're smart! 
wink_face.gif

 
Quote:
I believe the revision is going to split the LCD camp into two very far apart camps now.  One that likes the original sound of the LCD for what it was and is into one camp.  This camp will become solidified and immobile in it's view. The other camp is going to be people who feel the speed of the new driver elevates the LCD into a higher performance. 



 
 
Jul 9, 2011 at 5:40 PM Post #422 of 1,111
But seriously, I agree. They're both LCD-2 but they are different. The thread has totally gone viral. It's being talked about in LCD Amp Rec too. lol
 
Quote:
I believe the revision is going to split the LCD camp into two very far apart camps now.  One that likes the original sound of the LCD for what it was and is into one camp.  This camp will become solidified and immobile in it's view. The other camp is going to be people who feel the speed of the new driver elevates the LCD into a higher performance. 



 
 
Jul 9, 2011 at 5:58 PM Post #423 of 1,111
Do you always assume that other people have ulterior motives for everything they do?  I believe it was yours and a few others' posts on your personal theories about Alex and Sankar's reasons for issuing a Rev.2 that were my inspiration for starting the whole hamster thing.  Now you are assuming WA does not mean simply what he said, but instead has an ulterior motive for saying that.  What's that about?  Sometimes people actually mean just what they say and have no special motivation beyond sharing an observation or an opinion. 
 
OK, go ahead and tell everyone else why I posted this, and what I hope to gain by it...
 
Quote:
..and the ground began to quake.
 
I know why you're saying that over here. You don't wanna get fed into the wood chipper like me. You're smart! 
wink_face.gif

 
Originally Posted by WarriorAnt 


I believe the revision is going to split the LCD camp into two very far apart camps now.  One that likes the original sound of the LCD for what it was and is into one camp.  This camp will become solidified and immobile in it's view. The other camp is going to be people who feel the speed of the new driver elevates the LCD into a higher performance.


 



 
 
Jul 9, 2011 at 6:13 PM Post #424 of 1,111
Nothing of the sort. I was completely joking, that's why it had the sarcastic wink at the end. For the record, I don't think anything sinister is going on. I saw people like WA dumping their rev1's after the news and I spoke up saying maybe they should wait. That maybe rev2 is not better, just different. And that you may want both, or at least get all the info before deciding. Not starting trouble. Seriously. I noticed a severe difference, all of which I attributed to the new Peak. But that wasn't the case. When I suspected, I spoke up. I was never trying to say they were trying to deceive us.  
 
Quote:
Do you always assume that other people have ulterior motives for everything they do?  I believe it was yours and a few others' posts on your personal theories about Alex and Sankar's reasons for issuing a Rev.2 that were my inspiration for starting the whole hamster thing.  Now you are assuming WA does not mean simply what he said, but instead has an ulterior motive for saying that.  What's that about?  Sometimes people actually mean just what they say and have no special motivation beyond sharing an observation or an opinion. 
 
OK, go ahead and tell everyone else why I posted this, and what I hope to gain by it...
 


 



 
 
Jul 9, 2011 at 7:08 PM Post #425 of 1,111
Thanks for clarifying that. Your winky eye'd smiling face didn't quite do the trick and actually made it seem more to the jab in the ribs kind of gesture to me.  My apologies for being a bit terse in the previous post.
 
You said you noticed a "severe difference", but then you are suggesting that it may have been because you also got a new amp that you had not heard before...is that right?  Would you expand on that.  Sorry, I'm just trying to follow you here and may have missed a previous post. Nice choice of amp BTW. 
 
It did not occur to me that WA "dumped" his Rev. 1 - seems to me like he sold them to pay for the Rev. 2 and that he had enough confidence in his aural memory to know whether he liked one more than the other, and was willing to accept the risk (which amounted to a few hundred dollars).  Some people just don't want multiple pairs of headphones, or multiple pairs of speakers (I certainly don't).  As far as "getting all the info" before buying - all you can really get is the specs and other peoples opinions.  None of that will absolutely tell you how YOU are going to like it, long term with your system and your music.  The only way you are going find that out for certain is to buy or borrow a pair.  You could also go to a meet and listen I suppose, but that can be of questionable benefit as far as being a gauge for  long-term personal use.  Anyway whether you think R1 or R2 is better, like everything in this hobby, will be entirely subjective.  Indeed, I'm sure they are different if Audeze says so, and if they are using a different material to make the drivers from.   I'd also take what Audeze says about the revision, the sound and their reasons for doing the revision, at face value and not speculate on alternative explanations for their motives, nor on how the sound may deviate from what they've presented.  Lets hear from you once you've heard them (and I understand you have Kevin - just not getting the full story there, per above).  They seem to know what they are doing and have maintained 100% integrity in all their dealings by every account posted here (I have not read a single complaint that lasted).  Now really, why would folks like this start acting or doing business in any way that was different from how they've established their very successful business...especially given that their livelihood directly depends on this product?  It's the same two guys at the helm. 
 
Pay no attention to that hamster at the keyboard.
 
PS - Whoops, I've left two posts go without any music recommendations.  My bad...
 

 

 
Quote:
Nothing of the sort. I was completely joking, that's why it had the sarcastic wink at the end. For the record, I don't think anything sinister is going on. I saw people like WA dumping their rev1's after the news and I spoke up saying maybe they should wait. That maybe rev2 is not better, just different. And that you may want both, or at least get all the info before deciding. Not starting trouble. Seriously. I noticed a severe difference, all of which I attributed to the new Peak. But that wasn't the case. When I suspected, I spoke up. I was never trying to say they were trying to deceive us.  
 


 



 
 
Jul 9, 2011 at 7:40 PM Post #426 of 1,111


Quote:
Thanks for clarifying that. Your winky eye'd smiling face didn't quite do the trick and actually made it seem more to the jab in the ribs kind of gesture to me.  My apologies for being a bit terse in the previous post.
No worries. I still need to tone it down a little. This is my first world community. I never really interacted on a forum before despite 15 years computer experience.
 
You said you noticed a "severe difference", but then you are suggesting that it may have been because you also got a new amp that you had not heard before...is that right?  Would you expand on that.  Sorry, I'm just trying to follow you here and may have missed a previous post. Nice choice of amp BTW. 
Severe going from an RSA portable sr-71a. I assumed 100 percent of that was the amp. I had the d1 dac for 2 weeks with the portable before rev1's left driver kicked. Severe should ready immediately noticeable to my inexperienced ears. But if you read the peak reviews, they pretty much tell you it's an in your face amp. It's resolution is mind-blowing, the separation makes you feel you're on a stool in the studio. So I figured it was all the peak. But then the first couple Rev2 impressions mirrored my own. It's a different headphone. In my opinion, a better one for everyone but those who have a serious fear of treble and already thought the lcd-2 had more than enough. There is definitely more extension now. And some of the creaminess is lost. I couldn't get fatigued before. I can now. But I want more. I'm hooked! So like all things, a trade-off. It's a complex choice. It's not and never will be a "one is better" scenario. I can speculate that much :wink:
 
 
It did not occur to me that WA "dumped" his Rev. 1 - Dumped was the wrong word. Again, I need to tone it down. seems to me like he sold them to pay for the Rev. 2 and that he had enough confidence in his aural memory to know whether he liked one more than the other, and was willing to accept the risk (which amounted to a few hundred dollars).  Some people just don't want multiple pairs of headphones, or multiple pairs of speakers (I certainly don't).  As far as "getting all the info" before buying - all you can really get is the specs and other peoples opinions.  None of that will absolutely tell you how YOU are going to like it, long term with your system and your music.  The only way you are going find that out for certain is to buy or borrow a pair.  You could also go to a meet and listen I suppose, but that can be of questionable benefit as far as being a gauge for  long-term personal use.  Anyway whether you think R1 or R2 is better, like everything in this hobby, will be entirely subjective.  Indeed, I'm sure they are different if Audeze says so, and if they are using a different material to make the drivers from.   I'd also take what Audeze says about the revision, the sound and their reasons for doing the revision, at face value and not speculate on alternative explanations for their motives, nor on how the sound may deviate from what they've presented.  Lets hear from you once you've heard them (and I understand you have Kevin - just not getting the full story there, per above).  They seem to know what they are doing and have maintained 100% integrity in all their dealings by every account posted here (I have not read a single complaint that lasted).  Now really, why would folks like this start acting or doing business in any way that was different from how they've established their very successful business...especially given that their livelihood directly depends on this product?  It's the same two guys at the helm. 
I understand all this and my attitude about these guys is so positive that I'm saying a few of us may end up adding a used rev1 to our new rev2's. I wouldn't be doing this if I thought they were dishonest businessmen. I speculated that the rev1 driver couldn't make it as a production driver hence prompting the switch. I probably shouldn't have. I didn't understand the tone of the thread yet. But that didn't mean one or the other was inferior. My point, which I made poorly, is that it's going to be an A/B choice, not and Old/New choice. Which means good news for all of us. There's lasting value in every lcd-2. Because if they are all valuable, then there is the potential for a trade market among our community. 
 
Pay no attention to that hamster at the keyboard.
 


 



 
 
Jul 9, 2011 at 8:25 PM Post #427 of 1,111


Quote:
No worries. I still need to tone it down a little. This is my first world community. I never really interacted on a forum before despite 15 years computer experience.
 
 
Severe going from an RSA portable sr-71a. I assumed 100 percent of that was the amp. I had the d1 dac for 2 weeks with the portable before rev1's left driver kicked. Severe should ready immediately noticeable to my inexperienced ears. But if you read the peak reviews, they pretty much tell you it's an in your face amp. It's resolution is mind-blowing, the separation makes you feel you're on a stool in the studio. So I figured it was all the peak. But then the first couple Rev2 impressions mirrored my own. It's a different headphone. In my opinion, a better one for everyone but those who have a serious fear of treble and already thought the lcd-2 had more than enough. There is definitely more extension now. And some of the creaminess is lost. I couldn't get fatigued before. I can now. But I want more. I'm hooked! So like all things, a trade-off. It's a complex choice. It's not and never will be a "one is better" scenario. I can speculate that much :wink:
 
 
 Dumped was the wrong word. Again, I need to tone it down.
 
 
I understand all this and my attitude about these guys is so positive that I'm saying a few of us may end up adding a used rev1 to our new rev2's. I wouldn't be doing this if I thought they were dishonest businessmen. I speculated that the rev1 driver couldn't make it as a production driver hence prompting the switch. I probably shouldn't have. I didn't understand the tone of the thread yet. But that didn't mean one or the other was inferior. My point, which I made poorly, is that it's going to be an A/B choice, not and Old/New choice. Which means good news for all of us. There's lasting value in every lcd-2. Because if they are all valuable, then there is the potential for a trade market among our community. 
 


Ah, that explains a lot that this is your first venture into a forum.  Thanks for your candor. Yes, take it easy on the speculations and you'll be fine.  Don't start any wild rumors like evil rodents seeking world domination either or you'll start to get a bad reputation. 
 
I wrote one of the reviews of the Peak Volcano, so I'm pretty familiar with it.  It's an ideal companion for the LCD-2 - if you are making judgments based upon hearing your first pair with only the RWA portable, and the second replacement pair with an Apex Peak Volcano, I would say the difference those amps might present would throw off any evaluation of the cans connected to them, should that be the case. 
 
Interesting observations about treble and fatigue.  I found I could not bear to listen to HE-5's for more than 10-15 minutes without noticeable fatigue, but I would guess that the treble on those cans is actually attenuated significantly from what I hear in the LCD-2 r.1 (in relation to the rest of the range).  Certainly from the graphs and the input from Audeze on the treble changes, it would not seem that the r.2 is moving in that direction at all.  By the graph, treble still seems significantly shelved down in the r2, so it surprises me that you'd feel any more fatigued in listening to the r2 vs the r1
 
You should take this to one of the other threads since this one is supposed to be about music.  With that in mind....
 
 

 
Good to hear you have faith in the company, as you should. 
 
 
Jul 9, 2011 at 9:46 PM Post #428 of 1,111

I've always loved the song "One Love" from this CD.   Sounds great with both versions of the LCD.
 
Let just say that I posted whatever I did about the LCD camp over in this forum because I happened to be in this one at the time.  That's actually the only reason.  I lose track of where I am sometimes. 
smile.gif
  That happens here in cyberspace and in the real world.
 
I have a theory as to why there might be some fatigue involved in the LCD listening.  It's the same observations I had listening to electrostatics.   With increased resolution and speed comes more inner detail info.  More delicacy and more for the ear to respond to.  The ear is a greedy beast. If it feels there is more to hear it wants more and so you turn up the volume to get even more of that finesse, more of that micro detail, more of that seduction, and then listening fatigue might set in.  I used to do that all the time with electrostatics.  Have you been turning up the volume?  
 
My journey towards the new rev of the LCD was in some ways fickle and motivated by a number of reasons that were a bit entangled.   First of all I was going to sell my entire headphone rig Saturday night because I just wasn't feeling it from the rig and then I was going to go back to speakers.  I slept on it and when I awoke I was confronted with the announcement of the r.2.  Befuddled I turned to the wisdom of my wife who has not even put the LCD's on her head. she could care less about this stuff.   she knows me pretty well and convinced me to keep the rig AND get a smaller speaker rig for the office.  Then I read Audeze's description of the faster driver.  From my experience with the Martin Logan CLS II panels I suspected that the nature of the faster drives would parallel the same improvements those panels displays when they made the panels thinner and faster over time (It seems I was correct).  
 
 
So now I had a decision to make. My LCD's were only 7 weeks old.  I wanted the leather headband and recently thought of getting it. That's $100.  Then I also wanted the travel case ( even though my LCD never moves) that another $85.  Then you add shipping.
 
So I thought what the hell.  Sell the LCD's for $750 which includes shipping, get the leather headband and the travel case and take a small hit after the subtraction and then take a chance on the r.2 being something less than a disaster.  So one night I was going to sell everything and the next night I'm back in.  It would seem fickle if not motivated by some sort of audiophile logic which I've learned to apply to myself over the years to justify just about every outrageous purchase I've ever made.  
 
In the meantime $750 for a new pair of LCD r.1's that are brand new is an excellent deal for the guy who bought them. I mean it's not like they are produce and spoil. they are still great cans and if the r.2 hadn't come out and let loss the hamsters everyone would still be in sonic heaven listening to them.  That hasn't changed.  The LCD r.1 is still a great headphone. 
 
Jul 9, 2011 at 10:32 PM Post #429 of 1,111
The last 4 songs of Radiohead King of Limbs 24/96
The Beatles Abbey Road 24/96
Roxy Music Avalon SACD
Eno/ Byrne My life in the Bush of ghosts ALAC
Seal DVD audio acoustic album. Extremely well mastered
Beck Sea Change SACD
Beethovens 9th DVD audio
U2 Zooropa
 
Jul 10, 2011 at 1:57 AM Post #435 of 1,111


Quote:
Yeah but that's all right.  I couldn't get that one from my library but I did get Live at the Village Vanguard.    Very solid.
 


 

Yeah the Live at the village Vanguard is OK but it just doesn't have the sonics of this album.  i've been the the Village Vanguard.  I saw McCoy Tyner there.  The place is the size of a closet.  It is amazing they ever get a recording out the place.
 

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