[grandenigma1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf grandenigma1 might want to check for the line ouputs but I think this true for those as well.

Thomas you are correct and thanks for the stats!

on a side note the Lavry is mother approved ~ in the words of my mom "It has such depth and force, it sounds fantastic!"

and my dad asked if i would trade him for his M3.

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf The output stages for the headphone amp are build from discrete transistors instead of integrated op-amps which further adds to the component count.

I think I've read that before too, but looking at the pictures, it appears the headphone output is op-amp based, not discrete. (Though it's hard to say for sure since there is no closeup of the headphone section.) Nothing wrong with that, of course.

Quote:

I think Wodgy mentioned before that this unit is not just small variations to a chip manufacturers reference design but a lot of grounds up enginering.

It's pretty clear from looking at the pictures that this is not an off the shelf design. It would be a formidable amount of work to duplicate this as a DIYer, whereas the Benchmark is not that hard to duplicate. The components cost also appears higher than the Benchmark. (Note that I'm not saying either unit sounds better, just commenting on how they're designed.) The main place where Lavry cut corners is the two-layer circuit board, but as long as the performance is there, it's a non-issue. One of the reasons it looks like there are a lot of resistors is because they're laid out on a grid. I suspect they may have used an autorouter to lay out the PCB (the fair number of vias also suggests this).

I wouldn't send this to a modder. Not a lot of room for improvement; they'd foul it up more likely than not.

 

[thomaspf]

I had the opportunity to pick up my black in person and at that occasion had a chance to chat about the design.

While I don't know to much about analog circuit design I remember them showing me the individual transistors that make up the amplification stage for the headphone. If I recall correctly one major point was support for very low impedance headphones.

The headphone amp sits right behind the jack on the motherboard.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[grandenigma1]

What would people like to see more/better pictures of?

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandenigma1 What would people like to see more/better pictures of?

How about a blowup of headphone section and analogue output stage between DAC and RCA/XLR output jacks.

 

[grandenigma1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L How about a blowup of headphone section and analogue output stage between DAC and RCA/XLR output jacks.

Any other requests?

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf I had the opportunity to pick up my black in person and at that occasion had a chance to chat about the design. While I don't know to much about analog circuit design I remember them showing me the individual transistors that make up the amplification stage for the headphone.

Mmm, interesting. Thanks for the info. The op-amp behind the headphone jack must be a servo then. Do you recall any of the other things they mentioned to you when you chatted?

 

[thomaspf]

I was just completely puzzled by the large number of components and the FPGAs. I had expected an integrated volume control like the TI PGA3211 or Intersil XDCP chip. Dan had looked at those and found they introduced to much noise so he went on to build his own from discrete parts.

He also mentioned that the AD1955 uses a different type of logic interface that makes it harder to get low jitter. Unfortunately, I am not a hardware kind of guy so most of it was over my head.

Happy new year everyone ...


Thomas

 

[grandenigma1]

I hope this helps... im not photographer and my sisters digital camera is not very good... I used the macro setting and all the fun stuff... these are as good as I can do... sorry...

you can find all of the images in my Photobucket site here or in the link in my sig

I do need to give lavry another call... it appears to use quite a few op275s. They are present in the output stage, amp section, and a few other places... I was under the impression that it was not opamp based but now Im not too convinced.

 

[daba]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandenigma1 Lavry will not be doing a second run of the DA10's until February. Their vendors got around 10 each, at the most. When I ordered mine "Sound Pure" had maybe 3 left... this was only after speaking with Lavry directly and trying to track one down... which they were very willing and happy to do.

Actually, SoundPure has 5 left, as of today.

 

[Mikenet]

The Sennheiser sound comment is bothering me. The top end Lavry studio converters are famous for being indistinguishable to most from straight wire when placed in an AD->DA configuration. Up until the last couple years, studio engineers kept having to face the fact the no matter how good digital was on paper, in practice people could tell always tell an analog master tape or live performance from one piped through AD->DA in an AB or ABX test.

Does it continue to have this sound if piped through an external amp? Has anyone actually tried Grados with it yet to see how they perform?

I much prefer neutral components---especially upstream, so I can switch headphones for different sounds without having to redo the entire system. Yet if I had to pick my favorite signature, it would be Sennheiser

. I just don't want upstream components forcing all cans to sound that way. I really don't like accentuated detail or boosted highs, so if this is what was meant by not for Grado fans, I'm happy. But I don't want it smoothing out the sound, either.

 

[grandenigma1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikenet The Sennheiser sound comment is bothering me. The top end Lavry studio converters are famous for being indistinguishable to most from straight wire when placed in an AD->DA configuration. Up until the last couple years, studio engineers kept having to face the fact the no matter how good digital was on paper, in practice people could tell always tell an analog master tape or live performance from one piped through AD->DA in an AB or ABX test. Does it continue to have this sound if piped through an external amp? Has anyone actually tried Grados with it yet to see how they perform? I much prefer neutral components---especially upstream, so I can switch headphones for different sounds without having to redo the entire system. Yet if I had to pick my favorite signature, it would be Sennheiser . I just don't want upstream components forcing all cans to sound that way. I really don't like accentuated detail or boosted highs, so if this is what was meant by not for Grado fans, I'm happy. But I don't want it smoothing out the sound, either.

I wouldnt say it has Sennheiser sound. Just when compared to the DAC1 it has more body and a bit more smoothness to it. This is certainly something I was looking for as I found the DAC1 to be overly thin and brightish. Also on that note, Ive always found the DAC1 to be a bit too forward. The Lavry is not this at all. I suppose one could say it is quite neutral with a tendancy towards the warmer side of things but its no where near as drastic as the character of the DAC1 and the Lavry is over all more balanced and enjoyable to me.

My Balanced M3 is in the works and will be up and running in about a months time. Until then I am only able to give my impressions on the dac/amp and balanced out to single ended amp.

No need to fear that this is the "Senns" of Dacs ist just simply not the DAC1 of dacs. If anything I might have to venture to say it would be more towards the HP2 side if anything...we shall see

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandenigma1 I do need to give lavry another call... it appears to use quite a few op275s. They are present in the output stage, amp section, and a few other places... I was under the impression that it was not opamp based but now Im not too convinced.

Hmm after looking at some of those pics myself, I am interested in this subject myself, as I see very few discrete transistors. I was pondering giving this one a shot, but I think I will just stick it out will the fully-discrete, class-A Aqvox if the stinkin' thing ever arrives (24 days and counting).

 

[thomaspf]

Aqvox is an interesting story. I was talking to my brother in law over new year and he mentioned that televison ran a show about Germans who left Germany to find their living oversees.

The founder of Aqvox was mentioned as one of the examples. He left Germany to set up shop in China and is now producing high end gear from their.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer Hmm after looking at some of those pics myself, I am interested in this subject myself, as I see very few discrete transistors. I was pondering giving this one a shot, but I think I will just stick it out will the fully-discrete, class-A Aqvox if the stinkin' thing ever arrives (24 days and counting).

There are plenty of discrete transistors. They're just in SMD form, not 3 pin through-hole. Take another look at the headphone amp and output stage.

The OP275 doesn't look like it can drive loads less than 600 ohm according to the datasheet, so the most logical conclusion is that it's being used as a servo to allow the amp and output stage to be DC-coupled.

It would be interesting if you could round up one of these at a meet to compare to the Aqvox. This is certainly a lot less conventional design than the Aqvox.