[dvw]

How low is the Canon shot?

Telarc's 1912 has the canon shot at the end. I have both CD and LP. For the LP it's a big curve, I have no cartridge that can reproduce this other than my V15. Most of my other cartridge will just fly off the platter.

Once produced, both CD and LP 's canon shot sounded credible.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvw Once produced, both CD and LP 's canon shot sounded credible.

Not having heard a real cannon firing in my life, I simply can't tell if a cannon shot is being reproduced faithfully.

 

[Sinbios]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose I recall church organs go down to 16 Hz. And some people can only hear 22 Hz. This implies a few notes can be infrasonic.

i think the point the people above are trying to make is that you can still feel stuff that's not heard, etc

and i doubt vinyl equipment could produce 16hz any better than digital -- after all, it depends on the amp and the speakers, not the source.

 

[swiego]

I wonder whether recording equipment can handle sub-20Hz well.

Many of my CD tracks show little to no information below 20Hz if you do a spectral analysis of the track.

 

[pne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman That's why the "bubblegum pop" of the seventies was The Monkeys, and the "bubblegum pop" of today is Britney Spears, and a huge mess of horrible, duking gangs who scream offensive lyrics into a microphone, and then try to make it pass as "music". It's turned music-listening and record collection from a hobby to a way of impressing people. Today, the average kid with 5,000 songs on his/her iPod is praised because they spent their lives double-clicking on every possible MP3 they searched for in P2P programs. These people simply have an iPod for the fad, the huge collection of lossy, highly-compressed music as means to show off. People now don't have to show any INTEREST in music to actually look like a music professional. One can just have 5000 songs on an iPod, not having to baby any audio equipment or take care of their records. They are letting a valuable hobby and a very delicate way of art to be turned into a capitalist-america corperal profit joke. This all came from digital music. And don't think I'm some "old-timer" from the hippy era. I'm 19 years old, attend MIT, and am a programmer for Gentoo Linux. I am hardly what you would consider "technologically inefficient". I like seeing advances in technology where it APPLIES. Rich, warm music doesn't deserve to be turned into lifeless junk.

Amen!! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way. I want music to be about music! Not about status quo or bragging right, the latest trend, or looking cool. Modern rap/pop/hiphop is destroying this, and I can think of no better way to insult any hi-fi system than shoving in a lil john or ja rule cd. The problem is the majority of the crowd that this genre appeals to is pretty brainless in the first place. I doubt many of them would notice the difference between a lossy glitchy 128kb/s mp3 and a cd. Nor would they notice a poor recording played through a ridiculously bad system, as long as it's got a cheap subwoofer that pumps out plenty of bloated chest thumping bass. As a teenager, I am sadly forced to scorn my own age group as masses of conformist idiots, whose musical tastes coincide directly with whatever MTV pumps out 24/7, and buys whatever the latest rap/hiphop artist is advertising. This is most clearly evident at school, where you can't walk through the parking lot without hearing some fool's car sound system, usually consisting of as many subwoofers as they can jam in or afford, and surrounded by flashy LED's hooked up to a cdplayer boasting mp3 playback.

/rant

 

[pne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvw How low is the Canon shot? Telarc's 1912 has the canon shot at the end. I have both CD and LP. For the LP it's a big curve, I have no cartridge that can reproduce this other than my V15. Most of my other cartridge will just fly off the platter. Once produced, both CD and LP 's canon shot sounded credible.

I have the cd and lp of 1812 as well, but have never had the balls to play through the cannon section at normal listening levels.

 

[3lusiv3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pne Amen!! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way. I want music to be about music! Not about status quo or bragging right, the latest trend, or looking cool. Modern rap/pop/hiphop is destroying this, and I can think of no better way to insult any hi-fi system than shoving in a lil john or ja rule cd. The problem is the majority of the crowd that this genre appeals to is pretty brainless in the first place. I doubt many of them would notice the difference between a lossy glitchy 128kb/s mp3 and a cd. Nor would they notice a poor recording played through a ridiculously bad system, as long as it's got a cheap subwoofer that pumps out plenty of bloated chest thumping bass. As a teenager, I am sadly forced to scorn my own age group as masses of conformist idiots, whose musical tastes coincide directly with whatever MTV pumps out 24/7, and buys whatever the latest rap/hiphop artist is advertising. This is most clearly evident at school, where you can't walk through the parking lot without hearing some fool's car sound system, usually consisting of as many subwoofers as they can jam in or afford, and surrounded by flashy LED's hooked up to a cdplayer boasting mp3 playback. /rant

<Amen!! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way. I want music to be about music! Not about status quo or bragging right, the latest trend, or looking cool. <Modern rock> is destroying this, and I can think of no better way to insult any hi-fi system than shoving in a <insert pop rock band here> cd. The problem is the majority of the crowd that this genre appeals to is pretty brainless in the first place. I doubt many of them would notice the difference between a lossy glitchy 128kb/s mp3 and a cd. Nor would they notice a poor recording played through a ridiculously bad system, as long as it's got a cheap subwoofer that pumps out plenty of bloated chest thumping bass. As a teenager, I am sadly forced to scorn my own age group as masses of conformist idiots, whose musical tastes coincide directly with whatever MTV pumps out 24/7, and buys whatever the latest <rock> artist is advertising. This is most clearly evident at school, where you can't walk through the parking lot without hearing some fool's car sound system, usually consisting of as many subwoofers as they can jam in or afford, and surrounded by flashy LED's hooked up to a cdplayer boasting mp3 playback.

/rant>

Well, I understand where you guys are coming from but you are very wrong. Music genre has nothing to do with it. You're getting genre mixed up with marketing. This has been happening since before the digital age. I don't think any of this stuff that you describe above affects the music I listen to, the hardware or the quality of MY music collection. Just ignore this stuff that you describe and do your own thing. That's what I do. I buy music based on what I like not based on what I've seen on TV or hear on the radio. I don't even watch music videos. In fact a lot of the music I buy has no video, because it's all about the music.

You state "I doubt many of them would notice the difference between a lossy glitchy 128kb/s mp3 and a cd.". The majority of the population fits that description regardless of what they listen to. My friend from work is VERY into indy rock bands, buys a LOT of CD's and he encodes everything at 128kbps because he can't hear the difference and he also uses cheap ear buds. You seem to want to relate genre to quality in some way that makes you feel better but in the end you're stereotyping and appearing ignorant.

 

[pne]

the genre and marketing is very closely related, IMO it's a combination of bad music and bad meduims/formats. You wonder how in the world some of these fools get on MTV and all the fame with such bad music while somewhere out there some indie band is probably making some of the best music (n)ever heard. My only theory is that the music industry is all about politics, and knowing the right people, and that the big east/west coast gangs have strong influences in the record labels, thus this rap/hiphop pop trend is being pushed so hard. Modern rock is also pretty bad, but has a much smaller footprint in the music scene. Watch an hour of mtv and you will hear 15 rap/hip hop songs, 1 or 2 modern rock, 3 or 4 pop or 'idol' songs, and 0 songs worth listening to.

btw, I'm not ragging on rap and hiphop as a genre, it's the stuff that is playing over the airways and on tv that I can't stand. I am sure there is some amazing hiphop and rap music out there, this applies to every genre! However I notice whenever a friend brings a pop rap/hh cd over to play on my hi-fi system, the artist's recording approach is not to my taste at all. Someone mentioned earlier these cd's are designed to sound good on ipods and boomboxes and I totally agree. No imaging, no attention to detail, little regard to recording enviroment, just a conglomerate of computer generated drumbeats with the bass jacked way up, and a not so musically entertaining voice on top.

Lastly, you must notice that only pop/rap/hiphop/idol etc artists do the advertising in their videos. You never see a modern rock group shamelessly giving plugs to caddilac escalades, bmws, ipods, cellphones, clothing, etc IN their music videos. Rock videos are ususally shots of the band playing, while rap and hiphop is mostly sexist, materialistic, sometimes animalistic displays of vulgarity. What other genre of music video can you break the law, escape from the police in your shiny pimped ride, and stop to pick up 3 or 4 scantily clad women while tugging at the enormous diamond studded chain on your neck?

 

[3lusiv3]

I understand your points, but what gets me is that you and a lot of people seem to think this overproduced keyboard music with rapping in it is hip-hop. I have been listening to hip-hop for over twenty years and this pop/rap/RnB that you talk about is not hip-hop and usually portrays the opposite of what hip-hop is about. If you want to know of some good hip-hop have a look at some punk rock magazines. Hip-hop reviews and articles are very often included in underground/independent punk rock magazines.

Most commercial music is engineered to sound good out of a cheap radio in the car where most people seem to listen to music, including rock. This is done all the time and is not genre specific. It is done to sell CD's.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinbios i think the point the people above are trying to make is that you can still feel stuff that's not heard, etc and i doubt vinyl equipment could produce 16hz any better than digital -- after all, it depends on the amp and the speakers, not the source.

It doesn't just depend on the amp and speakers! if its not on the source whatever that might be you will never hear it no matter how much you spend on an amp and speakers.

Check out the latest range of Quad speakers. These are not expensive and yet they go upto 50Mhz? now why would they bother if nobody can hear anything above 20 anyway.

Reel to reel tape has been (was) capable of recording above 20khz since the 1960's. Even cassettes can go beyond 20khz...

 

[taymat]

I've never heard a decent vinyl setup, but a cheap TT sounds better than a cheap cd player IMO. As you go up the scale cd wins eventually but I think the main problem with digital is the amount of 'tweaking' that goes on at every stage, not the format, that ruins the original sound.
I mean take the White Stripes albums. They sound great and yet the Elephant album says on it somewhere 'no computers were used in the making of this album'. It was recorded/mixed on reel to reel tape and mastered with an analogue eq I guess. Yet it sounds great, all the instruments have a fantastic, detailed and warm tone with natural presence missing in modern music.
Modern music recorded/mastered/stored digitally sometimes sounds sterile and one dimensional with little dynamic impact. I've always thought that this isn't because of digital, it's because of the competition to go one louder, the desire to get music to sound good on a stock car stereo and stock earbuds, etc.
I mean if I was mixing music that was going to be mostly played from a cd on a car stereo or micro system (which is anything in the top 40, hardly any of my friends have anything other than a micro system/car stereo to listen to music with), the first thing I'd do is crank up the compression/brightness, lean out the upper bass and bloat the mid bass. Maybe give vocals and drums significant reverb. These are the sort of mastering mentalities that I'd imagine most audiophiles, including myself, despise.
Vinyl on the other hand will never be played on the move so mastering should be very different, enhancing the original recordings qualities, not minimising the limitations of the environment/equipment in/on which the music will be played, should be the priority.

 

[Sinbios]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool It doesn't just depend on the amp and speakers! if its not on the source whatever that might be you will never hear it no matter how much you spend on an amp and speakers. Check out the latest range of Quad speakers. These are not expensive and yet they go upto 50Mhz? now why would they bother if nobody can hear anything above 20 anyway. Reel to reel tape has been (was) capable of recording above 20khz since the 1960's. Even cassettes can go beyond 20khz...

...50mhz? ouch.
anyways, since digital wav's are in PCM format, as mentioned before, they can go from 0hz to anywhere, pretty much. whether the equipment can record or play it is another matter. so it's not really the fault of the format, which is what i was getting to.

 

[mbriant]

Quote:

Vinyl on the other hand will never be played on the move

Actually, in the 50's they did experiment with record players in luxury cars and limos....didn't seem to catch on for some reason however.

In the early 80's, Audio Technica sold a portable LP player called the "Sound Burger", which while not meant to be used while in motion, was quite small and run by batteries. Their ad showed a girl sunbathing on a blanket on the beach, with a black LP cooking away in the sun beside her. For some reason, the Sound Burger never caught on either.

 

[3lusiv3]

A friend of mine has an old boom-box that plays tapes and vinyl. It's great!

 

[memepool]

Is it the Sharp one which plays both sides of the record? very cool. I have a Soundburger, it actually sounds ok and is great for beating the listening cues in 2nd hand record stores....
Vestax make a modern one for exactly this purpose but it doesn't have quite the same old skool chic. There is even a Fisher-Price one which sounds awsome on electro trax....