[Ryan Cao]

Hello!

I posted this question in another thread, but it might be more suitable here?

Currently I'm using laptop/iPad (Apple Music and Tidal) as music source. It sounds pretty good, but without hearing other better alternatives, I'm just curious how much improvement a dedicated source can bring to the system.

Can anyone share your experience?

For the rest of the system, I'm using Topping D90/A90 plus Focal Stellia (possibly HD800s soon).

Thanks!

 

[HeavenlyD]

Surprised no replies here,as I would be keen to know also...?

 

[tesarpa]

It depends on how good are the input modules of your DAC. Some play same quality regardless of the source (bit perfect stream, of course), some react to source, cables, power supply. Generally speaking, iPad is quality source.

 

[Thenewguy007]

I remember Rob Watts of Chord Audio saying he used a Windows laptop as his source when he tests his DACs. Specifically a Windows laptop, as Linus & iOS aren't bit-perfect guaranteed when using USB.

 

[Aurosonic]

Pretty indefinite topic. I've wondered myself, even making a similar thread here and on Audiogon. No clear answer one way or the other, then again how many absolute truths exist in audio?

There appears to be two camps. You have the "bits are bits" objectivists, and the "everything matters" subjectivists. The only way to know for yourself is through experience. Trial components in your system and see if you can hear a difference. Not necessarily easy to do, having a local audio shop can help.

If you have Tidal do you pay for the hifi plan? Do you use Tidal's internal audio player, or do you use third party software like Roon? You might notice a difference among these variables.

What I will say about those high dollar streamers is that they're essentially computers. I use a MacBook Pro running Roon core as my source, and a Raspberry Pi as a Roon endpoint feeding into my dac. Simple, convenient, and it sounds great to me.

 

[sajunky]

There are three main factors for chosing a source:

1.. Bit-perfect transfers. iOS do not support, AFAK. Android the same, but some Android applications claim they can bypasss internal mixer routines. MQA requirements are helping a bit cleaning this mess. For desktop Windows, Linux have full support. MacOS is very weird. It had full support for decades that also shines with 32-bit floating mixer support (imported from Linux) that makes bit-perfect transfers less important, but recently it breaks frequently with OS updates, forcing application to use "integer mode" as a workaround, as (incidentally) integer format is not supported by a mixer and integer audio stream is effectively bypassing mixer.

2. Forcing an optimum USB transfers for your DAC. Please do not confuse it with UAC 2.0 class driver.

Historically USB was very jittery, there was an adaptive mode helping a lot, but these days most of USB receivers support asynchronous mode. It position this interface above S/PDIF in SQ. A little known trick is that there are two asynchonous modes: push and event driven. Push mode is default in Windows and Mac OS, as it integrate better with system mixer where all sources are synchronised with system clock.

In a push transfer mode there is no hardware clock, but low level USB software driver do a rough estimation for the best moment to start transfering next audio frame. It is based on a hardware system clock, but calculated in software to achieve an average standard audio sample rate, i.e. 48kHz. Receiving device must follow this clock, otherwise will go out of sync.

It is why it is important to chose in your application option for the event-driven mode, it is available when using WASAPI system interface. In this mode transfer speed is synchronised with the clock in the receiving device. The ideal solution.

In any case (1 and 2) chosing a right player and setting the right option is critical. On Windows make sure that player use ASIO or WASAPI exclusive mode, as system mixer sucks. When using WASAPI, behaviour is quite predictable and uniform across modern DACs, for ASIO results can differ, depends on a vendor supplied driver.

3. Avoiding ground loops. Desktop computer is a big source of ground loops. An advantage of desktop computer is because #1 and #2 can be achieved, but USB has no galvanic isolation. It is a place where portable devices take an advantage and can achieve better SQ despite of limitations of OS. Some DAPs have custom OS offering bit-perfect and an optimum USB transfers, taking an advantage of both.

 

[Deolum]

Using a dedicate source makes a huge impact.

I always wondered why my system sounds like crap when i started. I used a phone or ipad with a dongle via usb to the dac.

Then i started using a computer or laptop as a source and it was way better.

Getting streamers was also a big improvement over computers.

I also do think that a hardwired ethernet connection is much better than any wifi solution.

 

[VladYR]

When I first got into this hobby, I started out with a Sony TA-ZH1ES connected to a Microsoft Surface Book laptop. Tidal hifi was my streaming app until last March. At that point I ended up buying a Naim Uniti Atom and connected it to the Sony amp with some more or less entry level Nordost rca cables. While there was a marked improvement in sound quality, it definitely took a huge leap that summer with improved rca cables, some power cables and a power conditioner by Ansuz Acoustics. While the Arom is a nice streamer, it is somewhat noisy when it comes to its own headphone amplification which I used a few times. It doesn’t have a digital output so that’s a limitation of sorts. Going up the Naim lineup definitely improves sound quality in a number of ways but it may not be readily apparent depending on one’s equipment.

If you end up using a laptop as your source, you can make it sound quite good without spending a fortune. Try Audirvana. It’s surprising how much it improves sound quality. Better usb cables will also make a difference. However, quality does not always go up with price. Case in point is Audioquest’s diamond usb cables. 100% silver conductors I’ll give you an overly bright presentation. On the other hand something like Cinnamon or Carbon will sound quite nice at fraction of the cost. There’s also Nordost Tyr2, which sounds awesome but that requires some serious thought if you really want to spend that much on just an interconnect.

 

[PeterPan2020]

Hello!

I posted this question in another thread, but it might be more suitable here?

Currently I'm using laptop/iPad (Apple Music and Tidal) as music source. It sounds pretty good, but without hearing other better alternatives, I'm just curious how much improvement a dedicated source can bring to the system.

Can anyone share your experience?

For the rest of the system, I'm using Topping D90/A90 plus Focal Stellia (possibly HD800s soon).

Thanks!

I have much the same question, although with slightly different bounds..... I am in China so my options for streaming services are limited.... in essence down to Apple Music.

So the question becomes best way to feed Apple Music into my system. (macaler + TT2 + Meze Elites)

What I have gathered: (please correct me if wrong)

• Apple Music on Mac - no automatic resolution switching (although a couple of third party attempts....) - possibly always mixed?
• Apple Music on windows / android either rate limited or automatically resampled
• Apple Music on iOS - bit perfect and auto switching possible (????)
• airplay stream to a network bridge of some kind - max 48khz

So here I am with an iPod pro + Camera connection kit feeding the USB of the mscaler. Its a new system and Im smiling.... But wondering if there is more to be had (no other sources to test). This is my first venture into headfi... My previous experience was with speaker based Kondo ongaku and Weiss - but a long time ago. eg no reference available. This is impressive, but not jaw dropping as a room full of Condo bliss was (but much cheaper...)

I have removed volume control, turned off all sounds, do not disturb etc. From Apple Music I see the Frequency switching activate on the mscaler when changing from a 44-48-96khz track - so at least I can confirm that bits working.

Unaware of a way to prove its bit perfect.

I am wondering:

• Is there more to be had?
• Would an airplay streamer be a better option even given the 48Khz cap?
• would a DDC 'clean up' the possibly poor usb signal? (or is it a case of you cannot put back what is missing)
• Is it just a dumb idea trying to get Apple Music as a high quality source? (hope not as great library and interface - plus it works reliably in China)

Love to hear from anyone who has thoughts on this!

PS - I have been scouring the web on this topic, but the only info I find seems ever evangelical but in a lowfi context or negative but you can see why the use case would generate poor results....

 

[PeterPan2020]

I have much the same question, although with slightly different bounds..... I am in China so my options for streaming services are limited.... in essence down to Apple Music.

So the question becomes best way to feed Apple Music into my system. (macaler + TT2 + Meze Elites)

What I have gathered: (please correct me if wrong)

• Apple Music on Mac - no automatic resolution switching (although a couple of third party attempts....) - possibly always mixed?
• Apple Music on windows / android either rate limited or automatically resampled
• Apple Music on iOS - bit perfect and auto switching possible (????)
• airplay stream to a network bridge of some kind - max 48khz

So here I am with an iPod pro + Camera connection kit feeding the USB of the mscaler. Its a new system and Im smiling.... But wondering if there is more to be had (no other sources to test). This is my first venture into headfi... My previous experience was with speaker based Kondo ongaku and Weiss - but a long time ago. eg no reference available. This is impressive, but not jaw dropping as a room full of Condo bliss was (but much cheaper...)

I have removed volume control, turned off all sounds, do not disturb etc. From Apple Music I see the Frequency switching activate on the mscaler when changing from a 44-48-96khz track - so at least I can confirm that bits working.

Unaware of a way to prove its bit perfect.

I am wondering:

• Is there more to be had?
• Would an airplay streamer be a better option even given the 48Khz cap?
• would a DDC 'clean up' the possibly poor usb signal? (or is it a case of you cannot put back what is missing)
• Is it just a dumb idea trying to get Apple Music as a high quality source? (hope not as great library and interface - plus it works reliably in China)

Love to hear from anyone who has thoughts on this!

PS - I have been scouring the web on this topic, but the only info I find seems ever evangelical but in a lowfi context or negative but you can see why the use case would generate poor results....

In case anyone is interested....

I setup a MacBook Pro with JR MC - using core audio to a/b against iPad and Apple Music. After downloading some flac files that looked like music I had on Apple Music - 8 albums in total. Unfortunately 6 of them turned out to be non comparable for one reason or another - bit rate or clearly a different version.

That left me with two albums to A/B. I spend a good hour - sometimes I thought I could hear a difference, others not. Preliminary conclusion - iPad is at least not terrible.....

The difference that may be there: less separation, flatter. Given I'm stuck with Apple Music Ill not test further.....

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I have much the same question, although with slightly different bounds..... I am in China so my options for streaming services are limited.... in essence down to Apple Music.

So the question becomes best way to feed Apple Music into my system. (macaler + TT2 + Meze Elites)

There is a thread on bit perfect for Apple devices on audiophylestyle.com website

 

[PeterPan2020]

Cheers - Ill have a

There is a thread on bit perfect for Apple devices on audiophylestyle.com websi

Cheers - I'll have a look. Throw a link if you can.

 

[PeterPan2020]

Found it....

So basically - iOS usb output from Apple Music not bit perfect...... Close but no cigar. Guess its time to test methods of getting to qobuz from China....