LAMPIZATOR THREAD COMMENTS REVIEWS TUNING

[BlakeT]

Hi, @BlakeT , Since you have experience with Lampi GG2 and Pacific 2 could you please give some comparison notes both versus Golden Gate 3??

One wrinkle here, I've had GG2 and now GG3 and Pac 2. My GG3 doesn't have the standard Engine 11, it has Engine 11-P. So, same engine as my Pac 2. My GG3 and Pac2 have identical tube sets/adapters (TP adapters and silver grounding wires, Philips PT35/14, WWII Valvo G2504 solid plate, anode loading tubes in the Pac are swapped between either Telefunken C3g or Telefunken EF802).

I've never heard the standard Engine 11.

GG2 to GG3/Pac 2... this is a very noticeable sonic change. Engine 11 is the new Lampi "house sound" which strives for greater technicalities, clarity/detail, zippy transients and more noticeable plankton (think high-end solid state), while still retaining tonal purity, very high realism factor, huge holographic soundstage that you can only get from certain tubes. The realism factor is why I love Lampi, and I find missing in even high-end solid state DAC's.

GG2 is more forgiving and relatively more tube-like, in the modern tube gear, positive sense. GG2 is not an "old school" tube sound. There will be some that prefer GG2 sound, which is still very transparent and detailed, but noticeably less so than GG3/Pac2. GG2 is more romantic, fun sound, more forgiving of poor recordings.

Just my thoughts, hope this helps.

 

[walker.777]

One wrinkle here, I've had GG2 and now GG3 and Pac 2. My GG3 doesn't have the standard Engine 11, it has Engine 11-P. So, same engine as my Pac 2. My GG3 and Pac2 have identical tube sets/adapters (TP adapters and silver grounding wires, Philips PT35/14, WWII Valvo G2504 solid plate, anode loading tubes in the Pac are swapped between either Telefunken C3g or Telefunken EF802).

I've never heard the standard Engine 11.

GG2 to GG3/Pac 2... this is a very noticeable sonic change. Engine 11 is the new Lampi "house sound" which strives for greater technicalities, clarity/detail, zippy transients and more noticeable plankton (think high-end solid state), while still retaining tonal purity, very high realism factor, huge holographic soundstage that you can only get from certain tubes. The realism factor is why I love Lampi, and I find missing in even high-end solid state DAC's.

GG2 is more forgiving and relatively more tube-like, in the modern tube gear, positive sense. GG2 is not an "old school" tube sound. There will be some that prefer GG2 sound, which is still very transparent and detailed, but noticeably less so than GG3/Pac2. GG2 is more romantic, fun sound, more forgiving of poor recordings.

Just my thoughts, hope this helps.

Yes, absolutely! thnks a lot mate! May i ask what have made PT35/14s your tube of choice??

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Wow! You’re not the first I’ve heard mention this but after hearing this it surprises me they would think that is acceptable- especially for the price they’re asking! I tried tapping the copper top on my Golden Atlantic TRP3 and it was nothing near what you’re experiencing.

Sorry for a bit of confusion, it's not my clip.
I've taken it from whatsbestforum from this post:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...dening-our-musical-horizons.39291/post-992398

Sorry for that.
Anyway for the price... I'm shocked

 

[BlakeT]

Yes, absolutely! thnks a lot mate! May i ask what have made PT35/14s your tube of choice??

I simply bought, tried, sold a ton of power tubes, trying to find the ultimate for my ears/system/preferences. PT14/35 are exceptionally transparent/clear/detailed, but still retain body, presence, holography, realism. That's the only thing that works for me... trying myself in my system.

The nice part is, I had a few other audio friends with the same DAC, and we'd sometimes compare notes, just to keep ourselves honest, lol.

I've tried way too many power tubes to list, but in ascending order of my preferred options, RK KR242's, NOS WWII vintage Telefunken 242's probably roughly tied with Visseaux TMBF1's... then ultimately, the Philips PT14/35's. PT14/35's are pretty close, sonically. I bought back-ups of each, so, my flag is planted firmly in the Philips camp.

These are just my subjective opinions, and others may differ in their findings/preferences.

I've posted a bit in this thread over time, as I bought and tried different options:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lampizator-valve-tube-rolling-review-thread.26478/

 

[Polygonhell]

These are just my subjective opinions, and others may differ in their findings/preferences.

I think this is key, there really isn't a best tube.
And people worry too much about optimizing the selection, there are a number of output tubes I could easily live with.
I liked the PT14's, but would take the RK KR242's pr even the KR PX25's over them all day.
But there are other considerations in tube selection the gain and probably more importantly the output impedance varies pretty dramatically by tube choice on the DHT Lampizators, to the point the AIC 10 I borrowed was completely unlistenable paired with the Pacific with 242's, a completely different amp paired with the TotalDAC.

 

[BlakeT]

@Polygonhell: Yes, great points. I'm in agreement. That's why, ultimately, regardless of what I, or others prefer, someone just needs to try in their system and make their own decision.

Of course, another option is, just don't tube roll at all and enjoy. All Lampi's I've owned sound good even with stock tubes. To me, the tube rolling made a very important and worthwhile change, but I appreciate some will just be "set it and forget it" and nothing wrong at all with that approach. Taken further, that also applies to cables, footers and other assorted tweaks.

 

[msq123]

 

[DJJEZ]

so today I heard the red october XL and WA33 JPS ELITE and the horizon 360 paired with og sus as i know it the best.

Red october XL - this is basically the same sound as OG red october but a more powerful sound, better speed, better dynamics, better low end, better slam, less noise floor, sounds a bit cleaner to me but need more time with it to assess, it overall just sounds more refined to me over OG. I absolutely love this thing. This was with 100% stock tubes as welll. JJ 300b's, JJ input tubes and tung sol rectifiers.

horizon 360 - chassis and size is near identical to Poseidon but with the added cool display on the front which I absolutely love. I tested this dac on both my wa33 jps elite and the red October XL as I know wa33 better than any other amp. The horizon is a lot more punchy and faster then Poseidon in sound, more detailed, more effortless. it's so good with all genres that if I could afford it I would happily own one and rockna would go to the streets. It is a very decent step above poseidon imo but your paying more than double the price which is nuts.

It feels like this dac can do it all, it has all the speed and slam and dynamics and bass and tonal density. midrange, spacial cues, realism and timbre were just absolutely insane. It doesn't reach rockna levels of speed and transient response but for a tube dac it's seriously impressive. I don't even know what I put as a negative for sound quality because so little is wrong and I don't have a huge amount of experience of dacs in this price range outside of the Vivaldi apex (the horizon 360 smokes it imo/I just prefer it) and the ideon absolut dac (which I have had limited time with but was very impressed with). I Would need substantially more time with it to truly know. Of course it has a lot of other negatives. It's 55,000 euro, insanely large, tube rolling is extremely expensive to reach end game level of tubes and of course needs serious warm up.

The red October XL combined with the horizon 360 literally made me tear up (this never happens to me, I'm not someone who crys or tears up easy) listening to billy eillish, it just sounds so real and euphoric, completely analogue, it's hard to put it in words, you have to experience it for yourself.

The other caveat is this dac is being severely bottlenecked by headphones in a headfi setup, seems kinda ridiculous to be using a 55k dac with a 6k susvara lol I can only imagine it's true potential in a multiple hundreds of thousands 2 channel setup. Do i think its worth it in a headfi setup? If you can afford it why not but your never hear it's true potential, your literally fighting for those last %'s and even 0.1 %'s at this level in a headfi setup.

 

[simorag]

My Horizon came back last week after being upgraded to H360.

The main improvements I have noticed are about dynamic contrast, further perceived reduction of distortion, transparency and detail retrieval. The most impressive thing is that LampizatOr was able to achieve this without making the DAC sound more lean or clinical, yet keeping the full bodied, organic, harmonically rich nature of the original Horizon intact.

Actually, the combined effect of more clarity and same tonal density / corporeal substance has enhanced the presence effect of the musicians in space. Seeing-through in the soundstage is even easier than with H1, with microscopic spatial cues being brought to the surface without being distracting. I can see how this made Lampi opt for the 360 suffix for this Horizon revision.

Both my headphones have benefited by the upgrade, but the Valkyria, being the less open and clean sounding of the two, has got the most significant uptick.

As for a DAC of this caliber being overkill for headphones, I am not the best to judge as I am obviously biased by owning one, so I'll leave it at that. What I can say is that I usually perceive improvements of the source in a more holistic way by using loudspeakers. Things like projection of the music inside the room, tactility of bass, space filling powers of the soundstage, ambience rendering are easier to appreciate to my ears.

 

[BlakeT]

Great reports @DJJEZ and @simorag! Thanks for sharing.

 

[BlakeT]

I also wonder about the headphone vs speakers and allocation of funds.

I can get a much better impression of sound staging and imaging elements in my separate speaker system (which is in a different room), with all the same details and resolution I get in my headphone system (actually perhaps a touch more in my speaker system). The sound is just larger and more apparent.

As a result, I tend to allocate more of my audio funds to my speaker system. But, I love both of my systems, for different (and similar) reasons. I'd never want to go without either setup. I listen to my headphone system more than speakers due to practical considerations.

 

[orrman]

I also wonder about the headphone vs speakers and allocation of funds.

I can get a much better impression of sound staging and imaging elements in my separate speaker system (which is in a different room), with all the same details and resolution I get in my headphone system (actually perhaps a touch more in my speaker system). The sound is just larger and more apparent.

As a result, I tend to allocate more of my audio funds to my speaker system. But, I love both of my systems, for different (and similar) reasons. I'd never want to go without either setup. I listen to my headphone system more than speakers due to practical considerations.

The moment I was able to listen to speakers without limitations in my room and at any time, I moved all the funds to that system and sold all my HP gear. I miss owning some of it because it was fun but every time I get something to try I understand I will always pick speakers ovet it and end up moving on. Even headphones like Susvara that can infinitely scale are still a bottleneck to the truly high end gear from my experience

 

[BlakeT]

The key for me and the speaker system, was taking over the room to make it a dedicated audio-only room, so I was then free to optimize speaker and listening chair placements and add all the acoustic room treatments, etc., with zero WAF considerations. Getting the room optimized is massively important with speakers.

 

[simorag]

A dedicated audio room with professional treatment is a prerequisite to achieve a 'suspension of disbelief' type of listening experience vs. real performances.
No headphones can compete there, as no headphones can produce the full-body physical interaction with music speaker do. I am just halfway there, but I genuinely envy people who has this luxury.

However, I truly enjoy the unique 'bubble-like' feeling headphones provide. It is a strange mix of extracorporeal trip, intimacy, immersiveness, isolation that fascinates me and puts me in a state of relaxation, egotistic abandon that I find necessary sometimes.

Listening to this with the H360 on headphones, for example, epitomizes all that, while making it obvious whence the 360 comes from

As for where to spend most of the budget, my approach is that I prioritize what gives me pleasure more often given the circumstances and limitations, diminishing returns be damned

 

[number1sixerfan]

One wrinkle here, I've had GG2 and now GG3 and Pac 2. My GG3 doesn't have the standard Engine 11, it has Engine 11-P. So, same engine as my Pac 2. My GG3 and Pac2 have identical tube sets/adapters (TP adapters and silver grounding wires, Philips PT35/14, WWII Valvo G2504 solid plate, anode loading tubes in the Pac are swapped between either Telefunken C3g or Telefunken EF802).

I've never heard the standard Engine 11.

GG2 to GG3/Pac 2... this is a very noticeable sonic change. Engine 11 is the new Lampi "house sound" which strives for greater technicalities, clarity/detail, zippy transients and more noticeable plankton (think high-end solid state), while still retaining tonal purity, very high realism factor, huge holographic soundstage that you can only get from certain tubes. The realism factor is why I love Lampi, and I find missing in even high-end solid state DAC's.

GG2 is more forgiving and relatively more tube-like, in the modern tube gear, positive sense. GG2 is not an "old school" tube sound. There will be some that prefer GG2 sound, which is still very transparent and detailed, but noticeably less so than GG3/Pac2. GG2 is more romantic, fun sound, more forgiving of poor recordings.

Just my thoughts, hope this helps.

I struggled between the GG and the Pacific w/Engine 11 upgrade. In the end, I went with the Pac because a good second-hand price from Lampi + the fact that I don't think I want my source being overly colored and tubey. The Pacific is pretty colored, with a little bit of warmth. Although I think I'd absolutely love the GG and still wonder about it at times.

so today I heard the red october XL and WA33 JPS ELITE and the horizon 360 paired with og sus as i know it the best.

Red october XL - this is basically the same sound as OG red october but a more powerful sound, better speed, better dynamics, better low end, better slam, less noise floor, sounds a bit cleaner to me but need more time with it to assess, it overall just sounds more refined to me over OG. I absolutely love this thing. This was with 100% stock tubes as welll. JJ 300b's, JJ input tubes and tung sol rectifiers.

horizon 360 - chassis and size is near identical to Poseidon but with the added cool display on the front which I absolutely love. I tested this dac on both my wa33 jps elite and the red October XL as I know wa33 better than any other amp. The horizon is a lot more punchy and faster then Poseidon in sound, more detailed, more effortless. it's so good with all genres that if I could afford it I would happily own one and rockna would go to the streets. It is a very decent step above poseidon imo but your paying more than double the price which is nuts.

It feels like this dac can do it all, it has all the speed and slam and dynamics and bass and tonal density. midrange, spacial cues, realism and timbre were just absolutely insane. It doesn't reach rockna levels of speed and transient response but for a tube dac it's seriously impressive. I don't even know what I put as a negative for sound quality because so little is wrong and I don't have a huge amount of experience of dacs in this price range outside of the Vivaldi apex (the horizon 360 smokes it imo/I just prefer it) and the ideon absolut dac (which I have had limited time with but was very impressed with). I Would need substantially more time with it to truly know. Of course it has a lot of other negatives. It's 55,000 euro, insanely large, tube rolling is extremely expensive to reach end game level of tubes and of course needs serious warm up.

The red October XL combined with the horizon 360 literally made me tear up (this never happens to me, I'm not someone who crys or tears up easy) listening to billy eillish, it just sounds so real and euphoric, completely analogue, it's hard to put it in words, you have to experience it for yourself.

The other caveat is this dac is being severely bottlenecked by headphones in a headfi setup, seems kinda ridiculous to be using a 55k dac with a 6k susvara lol I can only imagine it's true potential in a multiple hundreds of thousands 2 channel setup. Do i think its worth it in a headfi setup? If you can afford it why not but your never hear it's true potential, your literally fighting for those last %'s and even 0.1 %'s at this level in a headfi setup.

The bolded part is the only thing I'd want more of out of the Pacific, slightly more speed and low end punch. I thought about springing for it but I just couldn't imagine shelling out that kind of cash. Really interesting impressions in the past few posts. Maybe in a far future upgrade. I haven't exhausted all tubes although I've swapped quite a few.