LAiV Harmony R2R DAC Impression and Reviews

[]eep]

I disagree
Modern digital attenuation is being done on 1, max 2 bits. And the majority of the DACs are not using the full 24 bits, but only 20, or 21. So plenty of bits left to execute proper attenuation. And this will be the best and most transparent volume control you can have. If you only have 1 source, and the imput impedance of your amp is high enough, absolutely no need of a preamp (or you like the distortion/coloration the later is adding...)
It is very sorry the LAiV has no volume attenuation. I could live with Coax imput, but volume control is a must in a modern DAC

Obviously volume control is not a must in the literal sense. It's a choice. Or an option. But a dac is a dac. A digital to analog converter. Not a preamplifier obviously. It would be if you could add a few purely analog inputs. I also hate it when there's a volume control on every box in the chain. I have now a streamer with dac, a HP/preamp and two mono amplifiers all with their own volume control. I wouldn't call that a purist solution. Because everybody demands a volume control... Great for troubleshooting; " I don't have sound! Why don't I have sound?"

Like I said, if you want to do high end, let the engineers make their own decisions. It's always matter of choosing the compromise that you think will yield the best results. That's with a resistor ladder or even better: don't attenuate at all. Isn't it kind of stupid to reduce the volume first and then pump whatever you have left with full force to maximum output? What is the logical thing to do is; make an amplifier with variable amplification. Not variable attenuation followed by maximum amplification.

A dac is just a source. One source. And there are more choices than one. And not all are digital. So if you want a modular solution instead of an all-in-one or combined devices (amps with mediocre integrated dac or DACs with integrated mediocre HP amp or turntables with integrated crappy phonostage etc etc) you do it right and put only one high quality solution in one place.

But as I said: those are all practical and philosophical choices. Laiv is producing a complete chain and they make the choices for the best result. So far they seem to be on a roll. For us to choose which components we want to build our system.

 

[OhmsClaw]

I disagree
Modern digital attenuation is being done on 1, max 2 bits. And the majority of the DACs are not using the full 24 bits, but only 20, or 21. So plenty of bits left to execute proper attenuation. And this will be the best and most transparent volume control you can have. If you only have 1 source, and the imput impedance of your amp is high enough, absolutely no need of a preamp (or you like the distortion/coloration the later is adding...)
It is very sorry the LAiV has no volume attenuation. I could live with Coax imput, but volume control is a must in a modern DAC

Why though?
Because it has become a standard option?
There's no practical or logical reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater because a pre-amp is required before power amps.

This feature is merely convenient for iem users at the desktop to get more travel out if the amp pot.

Go look at the Wandla GS edition if you want a TOTL digital fixed and manual attenuation.

 

[]eep]

Magical thinking is wishful thinking. "If I say it with enough conviction and willpower it will become reality". But that's not reality. Things often are the way they are because of physics and practical solutions. If you don't understand the reasons behind it you can dream all you want. Studying building construction and learning the physics underneath erased all my creativity. Now when I imagine something beautiful and then do the math it soon falls apart. Welcome to the real world. Schooling is the destroyer of imagination. But if you really understand what you are doing, you can make some really stunning things. Usually that takes talent and effort and self-education.

 

[Lucus]

Why though?
Because it has become a standard option?
There's no practical or logical reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater because a pre-amp is required before power amps.

This feature is merely convenient for iem users at the desktop to get more travel out if the amp pot.

Go look at the Wandla GS edition if you want a TOTL digital fixed and manual attenuation.

A preamp with analog volume control will always degrade/colour the sound far more than a well made digital attenuation...
Or you spend 20 Teuros in the beast....

 

[OhmsClaw]

A preamp with analog volume control will always degrade/colour the sound far more than a well made digital attenuation...
Or you spend 20 Teuros in the beast....

Dang, then 90% of 2 channel users are degraded. You also only proved my point, just get a WANDLA or use source side client volume if you're married to digital volume control.

 

[Lucus]

Wandla sounds awfull...I have it at home during 2 weeks, it was a pain in the ears. I just want a beautifull R2R DAC with volume control, and possibly AES digital entry. Maybe the soon-to-come Gustard R30?

 

[]eep]

A preamp with analog volume control will always degrade/colour the sound far more than a well made digital attenuation...
Or you spend 20 Teuros in the beast....

Nonsense. There are all sorts of proper volume controls that don't degrade the sound in any way you could notice. And 'far more' is totally unsubstantiated.

I was hesitant inserting my current SMSL pre-amp because of concerns about adding extra electronics and extra cables in the way. But it's relais based volume totally gets out of the way. I can't hear a bit of difference.
There are also passive preamps with transformers that transform voltage to current, so impedance changes with volume so you lose nothing while the volume attenuates. Read the 6-Moons review.

So why don't you simply get a Holo May or Spring and be done. Then you get a full width case and a full preamp built in (at an extra 600). I'm just glad I'm not paying for that in the Laiv Harmony.

 

[RichieV77]

Some have asked how the LAiV compares to the Wandla and here's what Sandu from soundnews.net who has reviewed both said when someone asked him this question:

"It's quite a challenge comparing a delta-sigma chip-based DAC with a R2R ladder DAC, since we have very different technologies used, but still I'd say the Wandla is even more linear that the Harmony, it has a better contour of the notes (sharper leading edges) and it's a faster sounding unit, keeping up with super-fast electronic tunes. The Harmony isn't as fast or sharp sounding, it's calmer in this regard, focusing a lot more on the "innards" of the music, on the texture and meat of the bone. A violin will sound like a violin on the Harmony, while delta-sigma DACs won't portray with the same accuracy the natural vibration of wood, of voice cords and many other things. The Wandla is all about the transients and resolution, while discarding the "Digitus". The Harmony is all about immersing yourself, it's more about the music and less about the technicalities."

 

[Chibs]

For those of us deciding between the cyan 2 and the Laiv Harmony, give us an early hint?

Would love to but I don't have my review unit in yet. Should be soon though.
Having said that, the Cyan 2 and Harmony are very different beasts! Cant comment on SQ yet but do you need native DSD and NOS, or are you more in to on board OS and having a remote to change inputs? Excited to try out the Harmony and eventually put it up against another mystery DAC I just got in.

 

[RichieV77]

On the Cyan2 VS the Laiv, the YT channel Virtualhifi did a sound demo on the May KTE vs the Laiv and he preferred the Laiv, so did I. He has a professionally mic setup for this.

 

[StarlingCurve]

Would love to but I don't have my review unit in yet. Should be soon though.
Having said that, the Cyan 2 and Harmony are very different beasts! Cant comment on SQ yet but do you need native DSD and NOS, or are you more in to on board OS and having a remote to change inputs? Excited to try out the Harmony and eventually put it up against another mystery DAC I just got in.

Decided to go with the LAIV on the basis of the ability to use OS on board if I like. A good point from your post! Doubt I can go wrong there. Still, I'll be looking for your review!

 

[]eep]

Would love to but I don't have my review unit in yet. Should be soon though.
Having said that, the Cyan 2 and Harmony are very different beasts! Cant comment on SQ yet but do you need native DSD and NOS, or are you more in to on board OS and having a remote to change inputs? Excited to try out the Harmony and eventually put it up against another mystery DAC I just got in.

Woooh. The suspense... Fire up that flamethrower!

Always good to get more opinions and comparisons.

 

[OhmsClaw]

Decided to go with the LAIV on the basis of the ability to use OS on board if I like. A good point from your post! Doubt I can go wrong there. Still, I'll be looking for your review!

Headphones or 2 channel application? Care to share the rest of your chain?

 

[Bracken11]

LAiV have a pre-amp that should be available Q3 so it will be interesting to hear what the combo is like.

 

[StarlingCurve]

Headphones or 2 channel application? Care to share the rest of your chain?

Sure. Since you asked, my source is the USB out from a Hiby RS8 to a Holo Red (Used as a DDC to convert to I2S) which with then go to the Laiv (when I get it) which then will feed my Burson Solo Voyager via XLRs with the end of the chain being a set of Focal Utopia 2022 headphones. At the moment, I have the Cyan 2, but I'm returning that and will use the DAC from the RS8 until the Laiv Arrives. The Cyan 2 sounded fine, but I wasn't awestruck. I think the Laiv may be a bit more future proof, and may be better for some older tracks that may benefit from OS.