bdh
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2004
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I recently purchased the AT-L3000 and AT-HDA3000 from mbratrud. You can see his review of them here:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=128958
I’ve been listening for a week now.
For a little of my history, I started with a Sony MDR-V6, which I still have. Owned a pair of B&W 801’s and Conrad Johnson Premier 11 amp, which I sold, as I am unable to really listen via speakers now because of children and space. However, given the chance, I by far prefer listening to speakers. I bought a new Sony R-10, and had that for a year and a half, then sold it for the money and because I missed the bass in my music. I bought a pair of new Grado 325i’s and a pair of new Darth Beyers, which I slightly modded and still have. (From the looks, they really should be called Leia Beyers, not Darth Beyers). My impressions of those can be found here:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146708
After getting the Darth Beyers I was still left wanting a little more detail, and the excitement a more forward sound gives, but I was satisfied. And I wasn’t willing to give up the deep bass that the DB’s provided though. The only other closed headphone that I thought might suffice was the L3000. I need a closed can, because I do most of my listening at work.
I had the opportunity to buy the L3000 recently and I had heard positive reviews of the DHA3000, so I had to satisfy my curiosity.
I’ve now tried the L3000 with four sources and three amps: The DHA3000 w/ Noej Toejb 3000 via digital coax; The DHA3000 w/ Eastsound E5 via Toslink; The headphone out of the Noej Toejb; the E5 through a Ray Samuels Hornet; a 1generation iPod Nano through a Xin Supermacro III; and the Nano through the Hornet. I don’t have all the opulent ancillary equipment mbratrud has, but it is descent enough.
I first tried the iPod->Xin->L3k combo. I thought they sounded fun, had a full, rich sound, although somewhat lacking in energy and clarity in the highs I was hoping for. And like everyone else thinks, the bass, lower mids, and PRaT are what really stand out.
I then tried them straight out of the Noej Toejb and that sucked. There was no point in trying that for more than a couple of minutes.
I then tried the NT->DHA3K->L3K combo next. Hmmm, not what I was expecting. Sort of a flat, softer, more polite sound. I tried different treble and bass settings on the DHA3000. The highs got a little better, but the bass adjustment didn’t improve the bass very much. I was disappointed. Maybe changing to a fiber optic connection would dramatically change the sound characteristic? I’d buy a fiber cable the next day. Meanwhile, I did a lot of comparisons with the iPod->Xin to the NT->DHA3000. The iPod was far better every single time for every type of music I tried.
I’ve also done a lot of comparisons between the L3000, 325i, and DT770 now. And I have mixed feelings about it. I prefer the other two by quite a bit to the 325i. The 325i has a thin lower range, flat sound stage, and is just not as musical in comparison. The DB’s and the L3000 are more closely related sonically. Both have full, deep, strong, bass. I would say the DB’s go a little bit lower, but the L3000 has a fuller, more impactful bass. Every other headphone I’ve tried, the bass line of the music is sort of blended with the other instruments, but the L3000 makes it distinct, powerful, and lively, like you notice and pick out when you hear music live. This is exactly what I was looking for in a headphone bass. It’s fun and groovy when it needs to be and provides plenty of slam when the music calls for it. You can’t help but bounce around with the music.
The mids are also full, rich, and prominent. They don’t have the transparency, naturalness, or clarity of the R-10’s, and there is just some weird coloration I can’t quite put my finger on to explain, but it is a satisfying, musical, and romantic sound. (I will try to attempt to explain the coloration though. It’s as if the L3K makes the music sound like it is being played in a padded room. When you listen directly at the singer or guitar, it sounds clear and direct, but air around them sounds like it’s in a padded room. There, I tried.) The DB’s have thinner, less prominent mids. Part of that is because the DB’s have a bigger, wider soundstage. It’s more open and much less forward than the L3K. The L3000 is more resolving, but the DB’s sound a little more detailed because of its thinner, more open character. I do prefer the L3000 in the mids also, they are just more musical and fun.
The treble is the L3000’s weakness. It’s thin, not very noticeable, and not very extended. There's almost no air up there. The Darth Beyers have more pronounced highs, even though it’s still dark in character. The L3K is just darker. The DB’s sound lighter, brighter, more clear and detailed in comparison. Oh, the disappointment.
After getting the Toslink cable, I did more comparisons with the DHA3000 and Eastsound. More disappointment. It still didn’t sound much better. Polite, soft, gentle, a little dull, although it was a little more resolving and more controlled than the other sources I tried. This is not the sound I am looking for. Every time I switched between the iPod and DHA3000, the iPod was much more exciting, impactful, vivid, musical, open, and just plain fun. I listen to music. I rarely listen to sound. (Although I admit I did my fair share when I had the R-10’s.) I don’t understand how the engineers could build what clearly appear to be good rock cans, but then build an amp for it that was designed for easy-listening music. Oh well, it will be up for sale in the Amplifier section sometime today if anyone is interested.
I also tried comparisons with the Eastsound->Hornet and iPod->Hornet. (Just as a mini-mini-review, the Xin has a more open, detailed sound, and the Hornet has a more forward, engaging sound. The Xin has slightly better ‘sound’, while the Hornet has slightly better ‘music’. Both are very good.) If I haven’t shocked people enough with my DHA3000 views, most of you will just walk away shaking their heads when I say the L3000 sounds the best so far with my iPod->Hornet, which surprises me also, as I prefer the Eastsound to the iPod with my Darth Beyers. The Eastsound clearly does have more resolution, detail, and control, but it also provides too much upper bass \ lower mids to the L3000 which makes them sound very muddy. The L3000’s already have plenty of emphasis in that area - it doesn’t need more. The iPod, on the other hand, provides a needed brightness to the L3K that makes them sound clearer and more detailed than the Eastsound. Because the DB’s are thinner in the upper bass \ lower mid section, that enhances their sound with the Eastsound rather than detracts. Besides the sound, the iPod is just more fun and musical with the L3000. It’s bizarre to me how the Eastsound can make the DT770’s sound better and the L3000’s worse, and the iPod can make the DT770’s sound worse and the L3000’s better. But that’s the world of audio and our subjective opinions. For all of you who are shaking their heads at me – come here and listen! I admit the iPod can be lacking in control, especially with complex, bassy music, but otherwise it does sound the best with the L3000’s to me. As a note, the ‘Rock’ setting of the iPod equalizer was also the best setting. I just ordered an iMod-iPod, and hope that will improve the sound more. (In addition to adding more space, as the Nano I have is only 2G.)
I could write ten pages or more about detailed aspects of the sound and differences between the phones, etc., but I don’t have the time or see the point. Most of you will think I’m crazy anyway, but I definitely hear what I hear and know what I like.
Although the L3000 isn’t perfect, they are still more fun and satisfying than the Darth Beyers. So I will keep them as my main headphone, while keeping an eye open for any new cans that come closer to what I ultimately want. If someone could just make a closed can with the sub-woofer effect of the DT770, the bass, PRaT, and slam of the L3000, a slightly more forward mid of the R-10 and with more slam, and a slightly less zippy treble of the R-10. I think that is what my holy-grail of headphones would be. I’m afraid I will be waiting a long time. In the meantime, I will enjoy what I have.
bdh
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=128958
I’ve been listening for a week now.
For a little of my history, I started with a Sony MDR-V6, which I still have. Owned a pair of B&W 801’s and Conrad Johnson Premier 11 amp, which I sold, as I am unable to really listen via speakers now because of children and space. However, given the chance, I by far prefer listening to speakers. I bought a new Sony R-10, and had that for a year and a half, then sold it for the money and because I missed the bass in my music. I bought a pair of new Grado 325i’s and a pair of new Darth Beyers, which I slightly modded and still have. (From the looks, they really should be called Leia Beyers, not Darth Beyers). My impressions of those can be found here:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146708
After getting the Darth Beyers I was still left wanting a little more detail, and the excitement a more forward sound gives, but I was satisfied. And I wasn’t willing to give up the deep bass that the DB’s provided though. The only other closed headphone that I thought might suffice was the L3000. I need a closed can, because I do most of my listening at work.
I had the opportunity to buy the L3000 recently and I had heard positive reviews of the DHA3000, so I had to satisfy my curiosity.
I’ve now tried the L3000 with four sources and three amps: The DHA3000 w/ Noej Toejb 3000 via digital coax; The DHA3000 w/ Eastsound E5 via Toslink; The headphone out of the Noej Toejb; the E5 through a Ray Samuels Hornet; a 1generation iPod Nano through a Xin Supermacro III; and the Nano through the Hornet. I don’t have all the opulent ancillary equipment mbratrud has, but it is descent enough.
I first tried the iPod->Xin->L3k combo. I thought they sounded fun, had a full, rich sound, although somewhat lacking in energy and clarity in the highs I was hoping for. And like everyone else thinks, the bass, lower mids, and PRaT are what really stand out.
I then tried them straight out of the Noej Toejb and that sucked. There was no point in trying that for more than a couple of minutes.
I then tried the NT->DHA3K->L3K combo next. Hmmm, not what I was expecting. Sort of a flat, softer, more polite sound. I tried different treble and bass settings on the DHA3000. The highs got a little better, but the bass adjustment didn’t improve the bass very much. I was disappointed. Maybe changing to a fiber optic connection would dramatically change the sound characteristic? I’d buy a fiber cable the next day. Meanwhile, I did a lot of comparisons with the iPod->Xin to the NT->DHA3000. The iPod was far better every single time for every type of music I tried.
I’ve also done a lot of comparisons between the L3000, 325i, and DT770 now. And I have mixed feelings about it. I prefer the other two by quite a bit to the 325i. The 325i has a thin lower range, flat sound stage, and is just not as musical in comparison. The DB’s and the L3000 are more closely related sonically. Both have full, deep, strong, bass. I would say the DB’s go a little bit lower, but the L3000 has a fuller, more impactful bass. Every other headphone I’ve tried, the bass line of the music is sort of blended with the other instruments, but the L3000 makes it distinct, powerful, and lively, like you notice and pick out when you hear music live. This is exactly what I was looking for in a headphone bass. It’s fun and groovy when it needs to be and provides plenty of slam when the music calls for it. You can’t help but bounce around with the music.
The mids are also full, rich, and prominent. They don’t have the transparency, naturalness, or clarity of the R-10’s, and there is just some weird coloration I can’t quite put my finger on to explain, but it is a satisfying, musical, and romantic sound. (I will try to attempt to explain the coloration though. It’s as if the L3K makes the music sound like it is being played in a padded room. When you listen directly at the singer or guitar, it sounds clear and direct, but air around them sounds like it’s in a padded room. There, I tried.) The DB’s have thinner, less prominent mids. Part of that is because the DB’s have a bigger, wider soundstage. It’s more open and much less forward than the L3K. The L3000 is more resolving, but the DB’s sound a little more detailed because of its thinner, more open character. I do prefer the L3000 in the mids also, they are just more musical and fun.
The treble is the L3000’s weakness. It’s thin, not very noticeable, and not very extended. There's almost no air up there. The Darth Beyers have more pronounced highs, even though it’s still dark in character. The L3K is just darker. The DB’s sound lighter, brighter, more clear and detailed in comparison. Oh, the disappointment.
After getting the Toslink cable, I did more comparisons with the DHA3000 and Eastsound. More disappointment. It still didn’t sound much better. Polite, soft, gentle, a little dull, although it was a little more resolving and more controlled than the other sources I tried. This is not the sound I am looking for. Every time I switched between the iPod and DHA3000, the iPod was much more exciting, impactful, vivid, musical, open, and just plain fun. I listen to music. I rarely listen to sound. (Although I admit I did my fair share when I had the R-10’s.) I don’t understand how the engineers could build what clearly appear to be good rock cans, but then build an amp for it that was designed for easy-listening music. Oh well, it will be up for sale in the Amplifier section sometime today if anyone is interested.
I also tried comparisons with the Eastsound->Hornet and iPod->Hornet. (Just as a mini-mini-review, the Xin has a more open, detailed sound, and the Hornet has a more forward, engaging sound. The Xin has slightly better ‘sound’, while the Hornet has slightly better ‘music’. Both are very good.) If I haven’t shocked people enough with my DHA3000 views, most of you will just walk away shaking their heads when I say the L3000 sounds the best so far with my iPod->Hornet, which surprises me also, as I prefer the Eastsound to the iPod with my Darth Beyers. The Eastsound clearly does have more resolution, detail, and control, but it also provides too much upper bass \ lower mids to the L3000 which makes them sound very muddy. The L3000’s already have plenty of emphasis in that area - it doesn’t need more. The iPod, on the other hand, provides a needed brightness to the L3K that makes them sound clearer and more detailed than the Eastsound. Because the DB’s are thinner in the upper bass \ lower mid section, that enhances their sound with the Eastsound rather than detracts. Besides the sound, the iPod is just more fun and musical with the L3000. It’s bizarre to me how the Eastsound can make the DT770’s sound better and the L3000’s worse, and the iPod can make the DT770’s sound worse and the L3000’s better. But that’s the world of audio and our subjective opinions. For all of you who are shaking their heads at me – come here and listen! I admit the iPod can be lacking in control, especially with complex, bassy music, but otherwise it does sound the best with the L3000’s to me. As a note, the ‘Rock’ setting of the iPod equalizer was also the best setting. I just ordered an iMod-iPod, and hope that will improve the sound more. (In addition to adding more space, as the Nano I have is only 2G.)
I could write ten pages or more about detailed aspects of the sound and differences between the phones, etc., but I don’t have the time or see the point. Most of you will think I’m crazy anyway, but I definitely hear what I hear and know what I like.
Although the L3000 isn’t perfect, they are still more fun and satisfying than the Darth Beyers. So I will keep them as my main headphone, while keeping an eye open for any new cans that come closer to what I ultimately want. If someone could just make a closed can with the sub-woofer effect of the DT770, the bass, PRaT, and slam of the L3000, a slightly more forward mid of the R-10 and with more slam, and a slightly less zippy treble of the R-10. I think that is what my holy-grail of headphones would be. I’m afraid I will be waiting a long time. In the meantime, I will enjoy what I have.
bdh
