L0rdGwyn's DIY Audio
Aug 6, 2023 at 6:19 AM Post #6,271 of 6,808
Could you give some insight into your implementation of the H63 driver stage in that amplifier?
Am curious as it has some serious Miller capacitance I can imagine? Some requirements for a previous stage.
What's your measured/estimated max possible peak to peak voltage on the output's grid?
And for the next stage I can imagine it's a compromise on grid leak resistor? As the H63 likes a higher value compared to the HY69?

And most important. Hows the sound. Did you compare it to 6(S)F5G from other brands?

Not that I want to borrow your design for my own amplifier if all looks nice :wink:..... ... *(Yes, probably will do that since I've been collecting H63's just for this purpose; it's the amplification that makes it so interesting). It's been on my to use list for years now.
 
Aug 6, 2023 at 9:15 AM Post #6,272 of 6,808
@Tom-s sure no problem! Although, the specific implementation in this amp might not be so useful as it uses local negative feedback, which mitigates some of the bandwidth issues and also lowers the peak output voltage. But talking through the design might help.

Here is the general schematic for this amp.

801A A2 SET Schematic.png

As you can see, the H63 stage uses a low current CCS load, IXTP08N100D2 and LND150 in cascode. The feedback loop / the H63 cathode are buffered by a FQD3P50 PMOS (got that idea from SpreadSpectrum on diyAudio). There is some cathode bias provided across the PMOS / 620ohm feedback resistor, around 6V. But to properly bias, 3x AAA batteries are placed at the grid, putting it at 4.5V, so the grid-to-cathode bias is in the -1.5 to -2V range for proper biasing. So it is a mixed bias scheme, fixed and cathode combined. Given the grid bias, there is a 0.22uF capacitor between the volume pot and the H63 grid. The H63 stage works into a parallel 6BX7 cathode follower buffer, which is then direct-coupled to the 801A grid. The 801A is A2 biased, so positive grid current is given by the cathode follower. Local feedback is taken from the 801A plate to the H63 cathode, again buffered by a PMOS. There are no capacitors in the feedback loop (I tested this audibly and the sound was so much worse with a cap), so there is DC in the loop as well and the voltage drop across the 620ohm feedback resistor contributes to the 6V bias at the cathode of the H63. The high gain of the H63 is utilized for the feedback loop, so the closed loop voltage gain of the H63 stage is only about 22.

As I am writing this out, I can't believe I made this amp. It's crazy, but it works.

I took some repeat measurements this morning. Distortion at 1W into 8ohms is 0.3%. It does 7W at 1% THD. Here is the frequency response.

801A A2 SET 1W into 8.2ohm.jpg

I assume you would probably be doing a more conventional common cathode gain stage. In that case you really just have to worry about the Cmiller and the capacitance the tube is driving.

Cmiller for the H63 is somwhere in the 200-240pF range, so resistance from the grid to ground is something to pay attention to. Using a 50K pot, maximum resistance from grid to ground would be around 12.5K. Assuming a Cmiller of 240pF and using f = 1/(2*pi*R*C) = 1/(6.28*12,500ohms*(240*10^-12 farads)) = f-3dB of 53kHz. So probably would not want to go higher than a 50K pot. Since we've been talking about AVCs, which have a lower source resistance than a conventional pot, that would be another option to mitigate the high Cmiller of the H63.

In terms of the load and the capacitance it will be driving, using a low capacitance CCS NMOS like the IXTP08N100D2 would be a good approach. If you don't want the H63 to work into a buffer stage, like in my amplifier, you could take the mu output of the CCS, which would lower the output impedance substantially, and have it work directly into an output stage. Only thing to keep in mind here is the B+ at the top of the CCS has to cover the peak voltage swing of the H63 plus the dropout voltage of the CCS. In terms of the cathode, trying a bypassed vs unbypassed cathode resistor would probably have to be experimented with, it's possible an unbypassed cathode resistor might hurt the bandwidth. Bias current is too low for an LED in the cathode. The other option would be to ground the cathode and used battery bias. A single AA at 1.6V would get the job done, but of course you would need something to block DC at the grid, either an input transformer with the AA between the secondary and ground, or a capacitor.
 
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Aug 6, 2023 at 9:25 AM Post #6,273 of 6,808
Oh and as far as H63 vs other types, I haven't done any really critical listening. Before I got my hands on H63 (which can be gotten very cheaply from Langrex, they have an enormous stock), I was using the ST-shaped 6F5G. I didn't notice a huge different when I switched from one to the other.

While the 6F5G / H63 are a little tricky to work with given the Cmiller and plate resistance, they have incredible linearity. Check out these curves.

6F5G Curves.png

I think Ale Moglia did an article on the 6F5 / 6SF5 a while back let me see...

Here: https://www.bartola.co.uk/valves/2017/06/04/6sf5-driver-for-300bgm70813-se-amps/

He used a gyrator load into a source follower buffer. Not sure that the source follower is needed if taking the mu output of the gyrator / CCS, that would be something to investigate and also dependent on the output tube being used. I've also tried those SiC Schottky diodes he likes to use, IMO they sound bad.
 
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Aug 6, 2023 at 4:06 PM Post #6,274 of 6,808
I opened up the WM-WE01 today. Belt looks to be in great shape.

PXL_20230806_184724875-2.jpg

I cleaned the corrosion off the battery terminals. Got the new gumstick battery, works like a charm.

PXL_20230806_191422121-2.jpg PXL_20230806_195057948-2.jpg

Deoxit F5 fixed the scratchy potentiometer issue.

PXL_20230806_193042588-2.jpg

Replaced the battery in the wireless remote, and it works!

PXL_20230806_195247813-2.jpg

This Walkman sounds great, listening with the HD650. I have a 3kHz test tape on the way to measure the wow and flutter.
 
Aug 6, 2023 at 4:31 PM Post #6,275 of 6,808
I opened up the WM-WE01 today. Belt looks to be in great shape.

PXL_20230806_184724875-2.jpg

I cleaned the corrosion off the battery terminals. Got the new gumstick battery, works like a charm.

PXL_20230806_191422121-2.jpg PXL_20230806_195057948-2.jpg

Deoxit F5 fixed the scratchy potentiometer issue.

PXL_20230806_193042588-2.jpg

Replaced the battery in the wireless remote, and it works!

PXL_20230806_195247813-2.jpg

This Walkman sounds great, listening with the HD650. I have a 3kHz test tape on the way to measure the wow and flutter.
Can even drive the HD650… impressive. I used to have a tiny Panasonic cassette player back in the day. The only bad thing about it was it didn't really have the power for driving cans. Granted, way back then earbuds were the "biggest" thing anyways.
The giant brick of a Sanyo I had before the Panasonic - that was a different story.

I didn't realize that those gumstick batteries were so readily available. I was thinking I'd have to go to some obscure online battery place to find one
 
Aug 6, 2023 at 4:45 PM Post #6,276 of 6,808
Can even drive the HD650… impressive. I used to have a tiny Panasonic cassette player back in the day. The only bad thing about it was it didn't really have the power for driving cans. Granted, way back then earbuds were the "biggest" thing anyways.
The giant brick of a Sanyo I had before the Panasonic - that was a different story.

I didn't realize that those gumstick batteries were so readily available. I was thinking I'd have to go to some obscure online battery place to find one

Now I'm listening with the Atrium, it really sounds fantastic :) the amplifier has some nice kick. Been four weeks since I ordered my B215, then I can record anything I want...halfway there.

Yeah those gumsticks are all over, pretty easy to find fortunately! Maybe I'll try a minidisc player some day.
 
Aug 6, 2023 at 4:52 PM Post #6,277 of 6,808
It seems stupid, but the little remote is actually really convenient, it's nice to not have to pick up the unit. This Walkman has AMS (automatic music sensor), so you can skip tracks too, it will fast forward and detect when a track has ended. Doesn't work well for albums that blend songs, but still a neat little feature.

I'm gonna have to get a new ZMF cable with a 3.5mm termination...also planning to try out that new portable Zach is working on.

Probably going to be going down the rabbit whole of optimizing the performance of these units. As I mentioned, test tape is on the way for W+F testing. Want to learn the entire restoration process. I'd really like to get my hands on one of the Holy Grail Walkmen, the Sony WM-DC2. A fully restored unit goes for over $1K, it being widely regarded as the best Walkman ever made. But if I can fix it myself, I could probably slash the price in half or more.
 
Aug 6, 2023 at 5:50 PM Post #6,279 of 6,808
Aug 6, 2023 at 5:58 PM Post #6,280 of 6,808
And what else should you do? You can't build amps all the time. You need some fun too. :)

If I'm being honest, I'm looking forward to being done with the 2A3 amp, the HY69 amp, and my phono stage. From there, I'll have some little tweaky things to work on (my turntable for instance), but no more big projects planned. And Aegis is off and running. It will be nice to be caught up and maybe take a break!

I always say that though, then get restless and find something to build...
 
Aug 6, 2023 at 6:26 PM Post #6,281 of 6,808
I always say that though, then get restless and find something to build...
An ethernet switch, modem and router that takes fiber optic cable natively. I'll be your first customer
 
Aug 7, 2023 at 9:24 AM Post #6,282 of 6,808
I always say that though, then get restless and find something to build...
Some people are designed and built that way. Blessing or curse...?

I plan a lot of things in detail but never do anything. I plan something else instead, in detail. My output is low but cheap. I will never know if my plans were good or bad. But I enjoy making them.
 
Aug 9, 2023 at 9:11 PM Post #6,283 of 6,808
Got my tapes from Japan. I'm ready.

PXL_20230809_235440180-2.jpg

My 3kHz test tape arrived too, so I measured the wow and flutter of my Aiwa HS-PC202 and the Sony WM-WE01 using a program called WFGUI.

The Aiwa measured at or below spec, so looks great, and the speed is within tolerance. Not surprising as someone had already worked on this player.

Aiwa HS-PC202 W+F.png

The Sony on the other had has peak W+F in the 0.7-0.9% range, which is high.

Sony WM-WE01 W+F.png

I don't have a spec sheet to compare it to, but it uses the same mechanism as the WM-EX670, WM-EX672, and WM-EX674, so if I can find specs for those, that should get me a target to go after. In the meantime, I am going to replace the belt, clean the capstans and pinch rollers, and lubricate the motors. Speed is also within tolerance, but going to see if I can adjust it a bit closer.
 
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Aug 9, 2023 at 9:50 PM Post #6,284 of 6,808
It seems stupid, but the little remote is actually really convenient, it's nice to not have to pick up the unit. This Walkman has AMS (automatic music sensor), so you can skip tracks too, it will fast forward and detect when a track has ended. Doesn't work well for albums that blend songs, but still a neat little feature.

I'm gonna have to get a new ZMF cable with a 3.5mm termination...also planning to try out that new portable Zach is working on.

Probably going to be going down the rabbit whole of optimizing the performance of these units. As I mentioned, test tape is on the way for W+F testing. Want to learn the entire restoration process. I'd really like to get my hands on one of the Holy Grail Walkmen, the Sony WM-DC2. A fully restored unit goes for over $1K, it being widely regarded as the best Walkman ever made. But if I can fix it myself, I could probably slash the price in half or more.
Some Jupiter caps would be a nice upgrade. Shouldn't be too big a deal to mount them on the back with some duct tape. 🤣 🤣 🤣

1691632095869.png
 
Aug 14, 2023 at 6:47 PM Post #6,285 of 6,808
...

I always say that though, then get restless and find something to build...

Could change it up with exotic live edge table designs for your table-top OTL amp design.

11926437.jpg


Perhaps with plans for those who can afford exotic live edge cardboard 🤣

live-edge-cardboard.png
 

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