Konig Onstage NRG300 DJ & Numark Red Wave DJ Appreciation Thread
May 24, 2012 at 8:39 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 38

miow

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This is the thread where we are going to introduce you to an incredibly cheap headphone that has the potential of phones that cost 3x as much. Konig Onstage NRG300 DJ, Numark Red Wave DJ AND RELOOP RHP-10 are made in the same fabric (OEM), so they are exactly the same phone (just different price as Numark is a reputated brand of DJ equipment and Konig is pretty new in this arena). RELOOP's reputated DJ brand too.
 
Initial comments from another thread (where all has started):
 
 
Quote:
I got to tell you: have auditioned some Konig Onstage NRG300 DJ yesterday and they have the best bass/sub-bass I've heard in all my life. TWICE the impact of the Q40's, great speed, amazing definition (the bass), incredible dynamics, I have never heard anything like that. And the sound sig is pretty much like the Q40's with somewhat rolled-off highs (but more sparkly - actually the quality of the treble is very good), but I would choose the Konig's hands down. 69€.  lol. ; ) Almost bought them and am still thinking if I'm not going to get them today. :p That bass is freakin amazing. Just forget the Q40's in terms of bass/sub-bass compared to them. And no, it's not Monster Beats by Dr. Dre. :D  They have quality, they have emphasys on clarity, the only flaw for me are a bit rolled-off highs (but good quality/detail), but they give MUCH more fun than the Q40's. Still thinking if those highs wouldn't arise after serious burn-in and who knows some mod. I've noticed they have a huge thick foam between the drivers and the pads (easily removable), which is completely unnecessary and highs must increase immediately after removing that.
 
And equally interesting: they have removable cable. Just bought them and plugged in the large cable of the ZO (I don't use it) and the difference in SQ is noticeable. Never thought a much better cable could indeed make such a difference. Now I nunderstand RPG and his better cable on the Q40's. That stock cable sucks. But that won't give the Q40's THIS bass. Just forget it, no way. ; ) And they have 0 burn-in. Oh, and the removable of those thick foams in front of the drivers does a hell of a difference in clarity.
 
These are the best cans I've heard next to the HP700. They don't have the micro-detail of the Denons, they're warmer, but have MUCH more sub-bass and impact. For FUN this is the real deal..

 
Quote:
Man, what you can expect from this after removing that thick foam that covers the driver, is astonishingly thunderous bass/sub-bass, more than the Q40's. The bass doesn't have the resolution/texture of the HP700, but the impact/speed/dynamics makes you forget about that. They have the same quantity of the XB500, but MUCH tighter and impactful. It's so tight, it beats so hard. You can't imagine the sound of drums from these phones. I can't describe, just hearing. But with good clarity, good treble and good mids (forward/warm). They don't have the detail/micro-detail of the HP700, but they make everything sound so cool (even stuff that I didn't like), that you forget about analysing the sound. It's just feeling it, fun, pure fun. So addicting. This is the best way I can describe them and they just have 2 hours of burn-in.
 
I can asure you bro, they sound THAT great. If you can't audition them first and if they don't accept returns, just send them to me, if I show these to all the people I know I can sell a hundred.
 
The guy of the store just told me this: "you have to hear these phones. The sound is unbeleavable. We've been selling these for musicians. Drum players, etc". And I know he's telling the truth as I know one that bought them.
 
Now, don't count with an HP700 with much more bass/sub-bass. The HP700 have better detail and even more sparkle/transparency. But they're so good, with emphasys on clarity as a 100€+ headphone, pretty good highs, nice warm mids and this bass makes you forget everything and anything. The impact is just staggering. So tight... During my 2 hour trip today, I must have been hypnotised, because its always an eternity and it looked like 2 minutes. I was kinda perplexed with songs that I never hear because they sound boring and was about to delete and how COOL they sound with these phones.
 
EDIT: the cable is crap, use the ZO larger cable, makes a hell of a difference in SQ ; )
 
EDIT 2: If you have a FiiO E11 or JDSLabs Cmoy BB, it gives more clarity (especially treble sparkle) than the ZO2.3. Pair the E11 or JDSLabs Cmoy with the ZO2 for bass-head heaven.
 
EDIT 3: And dude, if you get these and love them as much as I do, let's open a thread for them.
 
EDIT 4: The real frequency response is 10 - 22.000 Hz (from the original box). They also have 50mm drivers.
 
EDIT 5: The treble is indeed good. 0 sibilance from Mariza's voice from the Album Terra and realistic cymbals from Dave Weckl's discography. Just a bit recessed like the Q40's (I'm a treble-head).
 
FINAL EDIT: PLEASE do not listen to them with those ridiculous thick foams covering the driver. It totally muddys everything. I don't know how can a brand provide a phone with this, but I've seen other brand doing the same: Numark - Red Wave (the bass of these is totally amazing too - need to test them side by side one of these days. From memory I think the Numarks bass is even more powerful  - earthquake level - and they have pretty good clarity. Just need to compare the level of impact, because the Konigs totally blow me away).

 
Quote:
They don't need an amp at all. Unless you want to add even more bass. Since I'm becoming an extreme bass-head (lol), I use 2 amps, being one of them the ZO, but all they do to these phones is add bass. It's just that. It's crazy the levels of bass/sub-bass you get with the amps, without overpowering/bleeding the rest of the frequency spectrum. 
 
These are very very similar to the Q40s in sound signature and sound quality, but with a little bit more sparkly treble and forward/warm mids. Maybe just a tiny bit more clarity, but same resolution. But with alot more bass/sub-bass impact. At least from memory is what I feel.
 
HP700 is a different beast. The definition of the bass, the texture is outstanding, you can hear every note from the bass guitar as if you were listening directly from an amplifier in a studio. Bass sounds this real. But the Konig's bass and especially the sub-bass is way ahead in terms of impact, it's tighter and goes very low, down to 10Hz and rumbles as low as 15Hz. Just incredible and gives alot more fun. It's like the Sony XB500 but much better (better definition, dynamics, speed and tighter). Now the mids and highs. The HP700 highs have a bit more definition, are more transparent and bright, they are almost perfect as the UM3X and the SM3. And have more sparkle. The mids are totally neutral, not warm or cold, just neutral and with excelent definition. The Konig's are warm. The main difference is the micro-detail of the HP700, the transparency, they can be analytical. They also have a bit better instrument separation. They beat these 2, they are other league in my opinion, but the Konig's will give you more fun while preserving enough clarity for a mid-fi experience. Basically is this, I'm not very good describing sound, especially in english, sorry.
 
IMO:
 
NRG300/M-AudioQ40: Mid-fi with alot of fun (especially the NRG300's)
 
HP700: Hi-fi with sufficient fun, but not sufficient for the extreme bass-head (from what I've seen lately)
 

 
Quote:
You're welcome mate. Well, I don't feel the time passing by with these cans. Again, 1:30 trip seemed like 1.30 mins with these phones. I'm not sure if it's because I'm rediscovering all my discography with this crazy bass :D or if its the fun, the immersion they give, thats so pleasant that makes you forget everything and enjoy, enjoy, enjoy... Fantastic pair of 50€ cans. What else can I say?
 

 
Quote:
These holes I've opened vastly improve treble extension and decay and even soundstage, exactly has happened with the HP700. I consider this little mod absolutely mandatory.
 
I've opened just one more in each side (5+5). Perfection.
 
What you can expect from this is treble quality very close to the HP700, if not as good (I don't have them here to compare, but I remember very well how it sounds). For a treble-head, or someone that appreciates good treble detail, extension and decay, this is a plus. If you don't open these holes, treble will sound "dry", recessed and with a short decay on cymbals. Improvement is huge here, no burn-in will ever cause such an effect.
 
Now this is Hi-Fi ; )
 

 
Quote:
 
BTW, concerning Numark:
 

 
Numark ARTISTS: http://www.numark.com/artists

 
Quote:
After opening those holes as explained on previous page, soundstage is quite WIDE. You do not only gain better treble extension and decay, as well as much better soundstage. It was a bit narrow before that, yes.
 
This sound is so addicitng (especially the bass), I haven't stopped listening to them since I've got them. I'm finding boring discographies to be much cooler than ever.

 
Quote:
They have nothing to do with the XB500 in terms or resolution/detail/transparency/clarity/soundstage/separation, treble quality/extension/decay and even bass speed and dynamics. They have clarity in abundance (after removing those foams covering the driver and opening some holes) unlike the XB500. Treble is very realistic after the mod, unlike the XB500 and mids are forward, lush and sweet like the HP700 (just warmer). You can hear sounds you just can't with the XB500. This is a VERY VERY good modable can for the price. I prefer these hands down over the Sennheiser HD598's and I think they're more detailed than the M-Audio Q40's after mod (although I haven't modded the Q40's).

 
Quote:
Damn, have only listened to Lee Ritenour (jazz) tonight, after my mod to treble. These cans sparkle SO much. What a treble!! Wonderful sparkle, perfect decay, extension and realism of cymbals. Treble is even better than the HP700, since the HP700 have a shorter decay and even outperforms the UM3X treble, since the highs on the UM3X are a bit too bright, not so realistic. The Numarks highs are perfection after opening all the holes and closing some with cotton (till I achieved the perfect decay and the right balance between bass and treble). At this moment I prefer the Numarks over the HP700. More bass, better treble (that I never thought possible, since it was recessed initially), similar mids - forward, lush and sweet, just warmer, similar instrument separation, similar soundstage. These cans are superb for the price after this simple, but very efficient mod. Will post some pics for the ones interested in replicating my results. I just recommend getting a better cable. If you got the ZO, the larger cable is way better than the stock Numark's cable. Pretty noticeable difference in overal clarity and SQ.
 
HP700 - All about micro-detail and bass definition, although treble has a somewhat short decay (improves a bit after mod, but still not perfect). Very good soundstage and above average instrument separation.
 
Numark Red Wave (modded + ZO cable) - All about bass (FUN) and treble (perfect decay and extension/realism/sparkle), with excelent clarity and definition. Warm, yet very detailed mids. Above average soundstage and separation.
 
Considering the fact that you can get the Konig's for 50€, this can be a better buy IMO. Get a good amp with the difference. Amplification is not necessary from a reasonably good sound card like the X-Fi Xtreme Gamer fatal1ty FPS, but makes a difference from a Portable Media Player, namely on treble.
 

 
Quote:
Yes, they do. I'm using the ZO larger cable, which makes a noticeable difference in overall clarity and sound quality. Modded (I will try to post some pics of what I did - pretty simple), they sound better than the Q40's. Highs are so much better and definition/clarity/detail in general. Bass is more energetic and impactfull too. But you need to open some holes inside to improve treble response/decay and especially remove some thick foams that covers the drivers (underneath the pads) that is doing nothing but taking clarity, highs, everything. It's a night and day difference after this simple mod. You won't recognize the phones. I've had the Q40's and I didn't like them except the sub-bass. For me they sounded muddy, but I haven't done any mod to them and haven't tried a better cable, since the ZO cable didn't fit.
 

 
May 24, 2012 at 9:27 PM Post #2 of 38

hyogen

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I'm interested in a mixer/cd player combo.  I've seen all in ones which tend to be cheaper.  where you can actively scratch an mp3 file...would be nice
 
there's this one that Far East Movement seems to use a lot.  I can't remember what that's called.  There's also the Pioneer DJ Ergo...which looks sweeeeet
 
I've played around with Roland sh-201 and sh-01 synths...pretty cool filters that you can apply directly to your mp3 or cd input... 
 
anyway, hopefully this isn't too distracting of a 2nd post -_-
 
http://www.pioneer.com.sg/storefront4/ProductDetail/default.asp?ProductId=1197&CatId=206
 
May 25, 2012 at 2:36 AM Post #4 of 38

miow

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We are waiting for RPGWiZaRD's review as well. He will receive the Konigs soon.
 
What I can asure to you is that after some simple mod, these totally destroy the HD598's that cost 165€. I also prefer them over the M-Audio Q40's. They have better clarity, are more revealing and highs (after mod) are superior. But the mod is needed. Difference is night and day after the mod that consists in removing a thick foam thats covering the drivers (underneath the pads) and opening some holes around. The air flow will improve treble decay, soundstage and instrument separation.
 
 
May 25, 2012 at 8:58 AM Post #5 of 38

RPGWiZaRD

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So I got them today... First thing I noticed when putting them on was VERY strong punchy bass and 2nd was the very forward lower-midrange and muffled sound, so only listened for like 10 secs before decided to remove the foam pads.
 
Well it certainly got better, the highs come out slightly better but it still sounds a bit muffled in comparision to M-Audio Q40, the lower-mids especially are more forward, possibly a bit too much on the Konigs and also there's some resonance in the upper-bass to lower-mids (now talking 150~350Hz or so region from my guess, I will EQ down that part later and I expect it to sound better). Subbass extension seems good, not quite Q40 standards though but better than HP700. But BOY are the bass punchy? It's at thereabouts XB500 quantities of bass 're speaking of here, very hard hitting midbass especially, I wouldn't say the texture and quality is excellent, I think Q40 so far has an edge but for the quantity of bass these headphones pack it's very good though, we're probably talking 15dB or so boost in bass here vs something like 8dB in Q40.
 
I might try punch some holes later as I definitely would prefer a bit more highs, Q40 is still brighter and more aggressive sounding than these Konigs despite removing the foam covering the drivers. The sound quality is better in Q40 mostly due to the resonance in the lower-mids on the Konigs, I think putting some dampening in the cups would do wonders though, of course it might be too early to speak yet but certainly these doesn't beat Q40 in clarity and definition out of box, the Q40 is clearer and more transparent sounding and doesn't have any excessive resonance.
 
OK, after some quick EQing it sounds MUCH better:
 

 
(Note this is with using ZO2.1 as amp and using the LOWEST bass contour level LOL and the bass quantity is still there up with Q40 + ZO2.1 at around lvl 7~8)
 
miow, how many holes do you use/recommend punching? 
 
EDIT: I think first I will try Q40 pads on the Konigs though, they should fit perfectly and make it circumaural and put the ears slightly closer to the driver => which should bring slightly more treble.
 
EDIT: Putting on the deepened modded Q40 pads which fits PERFECTLY I got pretty much expected results, more aggressive treble and it became much better balanced, in fact I could use flat EQ now and it sounded much cleaner, I was actually suprised how big difference it is, it even tamed down the bass slightly and especially the upper-bass to lower-midrange, improved regarding excess resonance happening around that range  with the stock pads. Now it's very hard to say at this point which of the Q40 and Konigs are better like this. I'd say the Konigs have a wider sounding soundstage but not more depth though, a bit less depth but more width than Q40. It's quite oval-shaped soundstage and Q40 has a more circular shaped soundstage with more depth and less width.
 
I still there's slightly too excessive resonance which hurts clarity/microdetail/transparency slightly, I might try open them up and put some blutak as dampening in the cup for testing.
 
May 25, 2012 at 9:26 AM Post #6 of 38

miow

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Well, RPG, in fact removing the thick foams does just a little to clarity/transparency/detail. What makes the real BIG difference is opening some holes. They will be crystal clear and the more you open, the nmore clear and transparent they become. My recommendation is to open just 3 holes in each side to start with. Then if you feel it's still not enough, that you want even more clarity and better treble decay (just pay attention to cymbals), open one or two more. Then if you eventually feel that you're losing too much bass because of that, just cover a hole or 2 with a bit of cotton. It fits perfectly and you can remove it anytime. What I can guarantee you is: these procedure can make them reach the HP700 levels of transparency/detail. Thats what I got now, thats why I'm loving them so much, especially the realism of the treble. As good as the bass (well, not as good, but better). SM3 level treble.
 
To eliminate the ressonance/bloated bass (consequence of removing the foams), throw in the cups half of a cotton ball.
 
Let me know the results man, as I want you to hear what I'm hearing ; )
 
P.S. The other pads won't give you the results of opening the holes. Not even close. They need that to shine. It's a night and day difference, not just a slightly better result as removing the foams.
 
 
May 25, 2012 at 9:36 AM Post #7 of 38

RPGWiZaRD

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Quote:
P.S. The other pads won't give you the results of opening the holes. Not even close. They need that to shine.

 
How do you know without having tested? :p It's a HUGE difference. :) It got pretty much similar as Q40 for me now and I don't want more highs than this as it's already becoming on the border of being harsh/too sparkly here and there. The only "prob" left is ever so slight resonance in upper-bass - lower-mids range and the oval shaped soundstage (would like a bit more depth). I may test opening one hole per side.
 
Putting the Q40 pads on made such a big difference to bass response quality, it tamed down the slightly "boomy" midbass so it let the deep bass come through better and I'm perfectly happy with this headphone's subbass response now, it's quite similar to Q40 in terms of bass response now, still slightly stronger, I use probably 3-4 levels lower contour levels on ZO2.1, maybe lvl 3-4 on NRG300 (compare to lvl1 using stock pads) vs 7-8 with Q40 or something like that.
 
With the current config it sounds very good, I'm not noticing any notable amount resonance as we speak, deeper soundstage would be welcomed though, it's probably the most oval-shaped soundstage I've heard so far when using the Q40 pads, but the improvements it brought to the table easily outweighs the loss in depth.
 
May 25, 2012 at 10:37 AM Post #9 of 38

RPGWiZaRD

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Which headphones, Q40 vs Konig? I thought with ZO2.3 the Q40 is overly laid-back sounding at least, haven't tried with Konig NRG300 yet.
 
I tried punching a hole but I didn't like the change with the Q40 pads, made it a bit too thin sounding for my liking (mids fullness disappeared slightly) so tighted up the hole with a bit cotton and all is fine again. But the midrange seems still a bit cleaner on Q40 so far.
 
OK, seems like a small hole is welcomed after all.
 
May 25, 2012 at 10:51 AM Post #10 of 38

miow

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Opening 3 holes also improves soundstage, not only the clarity, mids, treble, etc. Now you got me curious with those pads, but I also can't have more sparkle/clarity than this as I got 3 holes open and the other ones purposedly closed with cotton, which still lets pass a tiny bit of air thru the cotton for increased soundstage, instrument separation and clarity/detail. What I'm pretty sure is that if you open more than 1 hole per side that they will have more transparency/clarity/detail than the Q40's. But of course, this is with the stock pads. We're hearing different configs.
 
I got the impression that the Numarks have a bit more bass than the Konigs and I had the chance to A/B them in the store before buying the Numarks.
 
P.S. Mate, since you can close the holes with cotton and it works, if you're willing to do some more serious testing/modding, get back to the stock pads and open just 2 more holes. You'll see how clear/transparent they will become.
 
 
May 25, 2012 at 10:59 AM Post #11 of 38

RPGWiZaRD

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So far I'd still pick Q40 over these, there's a slight resonance happening here which I'm very allergic against. Now hearing slight resonance around the typical 3~3.5kHz area, Q40 is completely free from resonance in the whole range.
 
May 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM Post #12 of 38

miow

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Can't you eliminate that by throwing in a ball of cotton or something? Also opening more holes (with the stock pads), makes bass less stronger, which can eliminate that. Thats my config. Overal, with this config, I much prefer them over the Q40's.
 
Also try using the ZO larger cable. It's much better than the stock cable and gives a noticeable difference in SQ.
 
May 25, 2012 at 11:27 AM Post #13 of 38

RPGWiZaRD

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Yea I think I will try with stock pads and 2 holes first... with 1 hole it's already slightly better than no hole at all. With 2 holes open it's slightly better, I will need at least 3 it seems though. Exactly how big holes do you create, do you like open it completely in the plastic surrounding area or just part of it. I made the holes about half of that area or possibly slightly smaller than that.
 
EDIT: Actually I think the bass is too much negatively impacted with opening the holes for my liking. It's not about the quantity but about the physical impact which fades away as you start opening holes in the fabric, you still hear it very well but you don't get the feel of it. I probably get better results simply EQing it like I did at start.
 
May 25, 2012 at 12:08 PM Post #14 of 38

miow

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I opened them with a screwer. That size. Not the whole thing, just a very small part of it. EDIT: I think your holes are too big :s
 
Yes, bass impact decreases, but I prefer them this way : )
 
 
May 25, 2012 at 12:17 PM Post #15 of 38

RPGWiZaRD

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Yea covering up the holes with blutak to get a good seal the bass impact is back... it's more of a "feel-the-bass" impact return than bass bloat. They will still need some EQing to bring forward the highs like this though which is a shame as Q40 doesn't for me.
 
These are good candidates for EQ potential, I thought XB500 was that but NRG300 has even better EQ potential as sound quality is otherwise very (or extremely) good for the price if you just balance the frequency response a little. I just don't know what purpose the foam piece in front of the drivers serve though other than harm SQ. O_o
 
But sound quality wise if comparing EQ'd NRG300 using DirectSound output (therefore not bypassing Windows Mixer) vs M-Audio Q40 unEQ'd using WASAPI output the Q40 will win though as DirectSound + EQing will impact slightly on pure sound quality versus if it just sounded like that stock, ok well unless you have a hardware EQ which I don't have.
 

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