Knowledge Zenith (KZ) impressions thread

[jbfps116]

With the spirit of learning and some good-natured ribbing I have to give you a bit of a hard time here because you also declared the sub $20 single-DD Libra as your favorite out of everything you own, which includes some sets in the 200-300 range. (I think it was the libra... maybe it was EDC Pro?) When it comes to the AS24 I'm just too broke to try it for the time being, so I don't want to sound sour grapes - maybe it is better than ZS12. But if it is, may I ask in what way(s) is it better? My sense is that you rate everything about 90% based on tonality preference against a fixed list of your personal song favorites and then about 10% on other factors. It would also be interesting to learn what's in the rest of your audio chain. If AS24 is just better for you in tonality that doesn't really mean much for the rest of us. I already have the perfect FR for free in EQ on several sets.

As for the ZS12 I don't own anything else that is both as resolving and as musical at the same time while also being more/less tonally correct. They lack some energy in the upper mids to be perfect for me, but it's a small nit that's easy to overlook. Even with that, it's a cage match between ZS12, Castor Harman, and the Vader HiRes for what I'd consider to be "best". I'd have to give it to the ZS12 by a hair, but I actually prefer listening to the Castor Harman by the same and entirely subjective teensy amount, and most of that reason comes down to what I perceive to be an improvement in soundstage over the other pairs. So best doesn't necessarily mean a personal favorite, nor does it mean better in all the various categories.

AS24 is that product in KZs catalog, where they try to convince buyers that more drivers == more sound quality. I remain very skeptical about that basic assumption, but I haven't tried it, either.

Quick aside: there's a trio of DAC tweaks in the PowerDAC that allows the digital processing to be configured for attack, delay, and what they call "energy" which has a really unique trick to tweak what seems like a very slight change in gain on the edge of the nodes during the attack. In practical terms, this means that if you have a pair of IEM like the BA10 that sound just a smidge dry and have that characteristic fast decay of balanced-armatures, that sound profile can be improved by lengthening the duration of the attack and the decay inside the DAC to make them more "musical", or more "wet". That exact difference is what I hear between ZS12 and the BA10s. The updated BAs really do seem like an improvement. Speaking for myself, I have faith that the AS24 Pro is undoubtedly good from a hardware perspective, just not 5x the price better to warrant the expense when I already love the cheapies.

Wow there's a lot of points to cover here:
Yes, it was the Libra Balanced that won a perfect score on my first scoring test that was based on scoring the IEMs on how well they sounded on their own, running though a generic dongle from Amazon from my phone. [a layman's test, so to speak.]
The second test I'm doing is specifically pitting IEMs against each other to determine a ranked order of greatness. I'm pulling out all the stops here: Using the best cables I have, best tips, my Fiio KA5 for a source. I'm still mainly choosing them based on SOUND, but if it's a near tie, I usually factor in how adjustable the sound is on a earphone. If one has switches or filters and one doesn't, I am more inclined to weigh that in its favor.

How is the AS24 better than ZS12? IT sounds more airy, detailed, and spacious. It has a plethora switches that means you can REALLY fine-tune the sound to your liking. The ZS12 is still awesome and you can get it for $30 in Ali which is a crazy deal. The AS24 might be slightly overpriced, but when powered correctly and tuned right [assuming you got the switch model] I think nothing else in the KZ/CCA line that I've tried can really touch it [have not tried the Pro model] It has enough bass but not an overbearing amount like the Trio, it has far better mids than the Castors, and better stage and treble air than the ZS12.

 

[grogg]

Tuning Switch version of the ZS12 Pro X is a little more expensive in CAD than the non tuning version so I'm a little stumped on which to get. I feel like the non-tuning version might be a little too light on the bass for my liking going off graphs

 

[DynamicEars]

Oh! good I stumbled on your post in my search. I am looking to get one Kz az20 https://www.kztws.com/products/az20 after reading @Ceeluh7 's rave review at https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-az20.26683/reviews

Did you get em, @DynamicEars ? Are they still worth it? Any other alternative exists?

Yeah I blind buy it in the end and considered as bad buy. Not recommended. Connection is better than old ones, but my phone doesn't support snapdragon sound, and the AZ20 doesn't have LDAC so I was using AAC / SBC which is very limited standard codec.

Second, the sound is very bassy in bad way, the characteristic is adding sub bass and mid bass altogether until make the IEM sounded muddy

Third, drive power is bad, volume is low. It even struggle to drive their own KZ PR3 with max volume and didn't match my desire volume.

If you have budget to stretch, just get Fiio UTWS5, far superior (they are going to release new version too)
If not, just get budget TWS like soundpeats (try this Soundpeats Capsule3 Pro+ , remember the plus not old vanilla pro, with 12mm DD and xMEMs driver, around $70-80, LDAC codec, their new flagship). I never try one but the Opera05 is my main daily TWS, with similar 12mm DD but with 2BAs, the xMEMs should be better or smoother highs maybe? Lot of great reviews coming these recent days

 

[Singaravelan]

Yeah I blind buy it in the end and considered as bad buy. Not recommended. Connection is better than old ones, but my phone doesn't support snapdragon sound, and the AZ20 doesn't have LDAC so I was using AAC / SBC which is very limited standard codec.

Second, the sound is very bassy in bad way, the characteristic is adding sub bass and mid bass altogether until make the IEM sounded muddy

Third, drive power is bad, volume is low. It even struggle to drive their own KZ PR3 with max volume and didn't match my desire volume.

If you have budget to stretch, just get Fiio UTWS5, far superior (they are going to release new version too)
If not, just get budget TWS like soundpeats (try this Soundpeats Capsule3 Pro+ , remember the plus not old vanilla pro, with 12mm DD and xMEMs driver, around $70-80, LDAC codec, their new flagship). I never try one but the Opera05 is my main daily TWS, with similar 12mm DD but with 2BAs, the xMEMs should be better or smoother highs maybe? Lot of great reviews coming these recent days

Oh whoa xmems in tws! Will definitely look up. And other recco also, as that might help me use my other iems also. But will check soundpeats one first.

Fiio coming up with couple of goodies. That btr17 too, but then that's for another thread I guess. Cheers.

 

[r31ya]

Yeah I blind buy it in the end and considered as bad buy. Not recommended. Connection is better than old ones, but my phone doesn't support snapdragon sound, and the AZ20 doesn't have LDAC so I was using AAC / SBC which is very limited standard codec.

Second, the sound is very bassy in bad way, the characteristic is adding sub bass and mid bass altogether until make the IEM sounded muddy

Third, drive power is bad, volume is low. It even struggle to drive their own KZ PR3 with max volume and didn't match my desire volume.

If you have budget to stretch, just get Fiio UTWS5, far superior (they are going to release new version too)
If not, just get budget TWS like soundpeats (try this Soundpeats Capsule3 Pro+ , remember the plus not old vanilla pro, with 12mm DD and xMEMs driver, around $70-80, LDAC codec, their new flagship). I never try one but the Opera05 is my main daily TWS, with similar 12mm DD but with 2BAs, the xMEMs should be better or smoother highs maybe? Lot of great reviews coming these recent days

Oh whoa xmems in tws! Will definitely look up. And other recco also, as that might help me use my other iems also. But will check soundpeats one first.

Fiio coming up with couple of goodies. That btr17 too, but then that's for another thread I guess. Cheers.

as a long time user of BTR5,
i would recommend getting BTR15 or the upcoming BTR17 if you need bluetooth adaptor or higher end TWS.
it will detach your iem from your phone to a small dongle that you could easily pocket with less sacrifice on sound quality as you could use your beloved iems for it.
not to mention even the standard btr5 have 240mw (balanced) to easily power more hungrier iems.

unless, you highly favor the tws form factor
you should take a look on Fiio BTR-series/Qudelix5k/ Shanling UP-series.

 

[DynamicEars]

as a long time user of BTR5,
i would recommend getting BTR15 or the upcoming BTR17 if you need bluetooth adaptor or higher end TWS.
it will detach your iem from your phone to a small dongle that you could easily pocket with less sacrifice on sound quality as you could use your beloved iems for it.
not to mention even the standard btr5 have 240mw (balanced) to easily power more hungrier iems.

unless, you highly favor the tws form factor
you should take a look on Fiio BTR-series/Qudelix5k/ Shanling UP-series.

I agree with @r31ya , @Singaravelan I also have BTR7 and it has much better quality than UTWS5 too, I myself using BTR7 for wireless with LDAC (but recently since i managed the cable problem with dongle, I just use my DC Elite), and TWS for convenience daily usage (great form factor, above average sound, great battery and connection and less risk compared to midfi + UTWS5, if you drop you are risking hundreds of dollars).
But yeah back to your personal preferences

$200ish BTR7 / incoming BTR17
Best sound, half wireless (you still need IEM with Cable)

$150ish UTWS5 / new version of it
Medium sound, better form factor, can use your fave IEM, some of risk (if you drop them together with your fave IEMs )

$70ish budget TWS (Soundpeats Capsule3 Pro+), probably great sound, best form factor, beater set (if you drop it, just buy another one?)

$50ish - $100ish budget earhook, there are lot of options : I just remembered Moondrop have this Moondrop Evo, that worth a look too, or another one I can't recall from 7hz? Or Tangzu? I really can't recall but some new IEM company release that earhook someone posted on Discovery thread last week or few weeks back

 

[Singaravelan]

I agree with @r31ya , @Singaravelan I also have BTR7 and it has much better quality than UTWS5 too, I myself using BTR7 for wireless with LDAC (but recently since i managed the cable problem with dongle, I just use my DC Elite), and TWS for convenience daily usage (great form factor, above average sound, great battery and connection and less risk compared to midfi + UTWS5, if you drop you are risking hundreds of dollars).
But yeah back to your personal preferences

$200ish BTR7 / incoming BTR17
Best sound, half wireless (you still need IEM with Cable)

$150ish UTWS5 / new version of it
Medium sound, better form factor, can use your fave IEM, some of risk (if you drop them together with your fave IEMs )

$70ish budget TWS (Soundpeats Capsule3 Pro+), probably great sound, best form factor, beater set (if you drop it, just buy another one?)

$50ish - $100ish budget earhook, there are lot of options : I just remembered Moondrop have this Moondrop Evo, that worth a look too, or another one I can't recall from 7hz? Or Tangzu? I really can't recall but some new IEM company release that earhook someone posted on Discovery thread last week or few weeks back

Knowing me, I shall certainly drop em. Yeah keen on btr17 (googled more since you're and @r31ya 's posts. Launching November. (Thanks for the recco, guys!)

Proper 4.4 and 3.5 stuff, almost a dap for me as in through bluetooth streaming from phone.
And btr17 doesn't have to be connected to phone/dap; can just move around with that and iem (within bluetooth range of course). Simpler..

And one curious thing has happened since iems came to my life, I now hear full albums instead of hit and run with one track from here and there . Better audio quality, more patience to give albums full go I think or perhaps old age laziness to keep switching!

The reason for bringing that up is once I press play in phone, then I can just be with the btr17 for next hour. Hopefully audio quality pretty good with bluetooth streaming.

Else I shall strap on back of phone like you do with your DC Elite. But not skilful as you, so Have ordered 2 options for it:

1) shanling pouch thingy


2) xDuoo Sticker

Will use my existing dongles fc6, Onix on em for now.

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

happily here to shill for FiiO -the BTR13 seems to be the updated replacement for BTR3k (the one I have) and it's selling for a very modest $80 with good reviews. I can't imagine giving up LDAC Bluetooth connectivity for TWS. Even on my older BTR3k, both aptxHD and LDAC work flawlessly on both of my laptops using the A2DP Alternative driver for Windows, which is very inexpensive. It's never missed a beat and has a clean and quite detailed power delivery. Mine has AKG chips, but the BTR13's Cirrus Logic chipset appears to have an identical sound profile tending towards warmth.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-btr13.27522/

The BTR13 has the newer 4.4mm balanced output over BTR3k's 2.5mm if that's important to you. I have all 2.5mm and not relishing the idea of recabling everything at the moment. Having said that, I think if my BTR3k dropped dead tomorrow I'd quickly replace it with a BTR15 which is a modest bump in cost.

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

Tuning Switch version of the ZS12 Pro X is a little more expensive in CAD than the non tuning version so I'm a little stumped on which to get. I feel like the non-tuning version might be a little too light on the bass for my liking going off graphs

The tuning version's first 3 switches control the bass by subtraction I think more than addition. I think it's close to being a draw in terms of output between non-tuned and tuned running at 1100. If I had it to do over, I'd get the tuning version again - I like having the controls.

 

[countryboyhk]

I agree with @r31ya , @Singaravelan I also have BTR7 and it has much better quality than UTWS5 too, I myself using BTR7 for wireless with LDAC (but recently since i managed the cable problem with dongle, I just use my DC Elite), and TWS for convenience daily usage (great form factor, above average sound, great battery and connection and less risk compared to midfi + UTWS5, if you drop you are risking hundreds of dollars).
But yeah back to your personal preferences

$200ish BTR7 / incoming BTR17
Best sound, half wireless (you still need IEM with Cable)

$150ish UTWS5 / new version of it
Medium sound, better form factor, can use your fave IEM, some of risk (if you drop them together with your fave IEMs )

$70ish budget TWS (Soundpeats Capsule3 Pro+), probably great sound, best form factor, beater set (if you drop it, just buy another one?)

$50ish - $100ish budget earhook, there are lot of options : I just remembered Moondrop have this Moondrop Evo, that worth a look too, or another one I can't recall from 7hz? Or Tangzu? I really can't recall but some new IEM company release that earhook someone posted on Discovery thread last week or few weeks back

Tried the Capsule3 Pro+, which has brighter and thinner sounds compared to the original Capsule 3 Pro, still bassy. The resolution is great, while the tuning is very aggressive, not smooth at all.

 

[Carpet]

happily here to shill for FiiO -the BTR13 seems to be the updated replacement for BTR3k (the one I have) and it's selling for a very modest $80 with good reviews. I can't imagine giving up LDAC Bluetooth connectivity for TWS. Even on my older BTR3k, both aptxHD and LDAC work flawlessly on both of my laptops using the A2DP Alternative driver for Windows, which is very inexpensive. It's never missed a beat and has a clean and quite detailed power delivery. Mine has AKG chips, but the BTR13's Cirrus Logic chipset appears to have an identical sound profile tending towards warmth.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-btr13.27522/

The BTR13 has the newer 4.4mm balanced output over BTR3k's 2.5mm if that's important to you. I have all 2.5mm and not relishing the idea of recabling everything at the moment. Having said that, I think if my BTR3k dropped dead tomorrow I'd quickly replace it with a BTR15 which is a modest bump in cost.

Get one of the DDHifi right angle adapters. Turns your straight plugs into L plugs so they don't stick out like a bloody crowbar to wreck the sockets!

 

[r31ya]

The tuning version's first 3 switches control the bass by subtraction I think more than addition. I think it's close to being a draw in terms of output between non-tuned and tuned running at 1100. If I had it to do over, I'd get the tuning version again - I like having the controls.

its pretty impressive change from from neutral-ish to bassy tuned.

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

tried this on the Trio... and on the XuanNv... but the Rosefinch came out on top for ridiculous subbass performance!!!

I meant to point out about the Rosefinch. This IEM seems like Castor Bass' chipped tooth cousin, son of a rich uncle. x-)

Using the best cables I have, best tips, my Fiio KA5 for a source. I'm still mainly choosing them based on SOUND, but if it's a near tie, I usually factor in how adjustable the sound is on a earphone. If one has switches or filters and one doesn't, I am more inclined to weigh that in its favor.

So more switches, increased subjective favorability. That's fair - I know some folks are rebelling against the switches, but I really like them, too. I think made KZ's catalog a lot more accessible also.

I almost got a KA5 before ordering my BTR3k, which I've had for about 4 years now. For desktop I have a U-phoria UMC202HD interface but its amp is substandard to both dongles so it hasn't been getting much use. I really want one of those R2R units, now!

How is the AS24 better than ZS12? IT sounds more airy, detailed, and spacious. It has a plethora switches that means you can REALLY fine-tune the sound to your liking.

better stage and treble air than the ZS12.

So more air, and I'm reading between the lines here to be a bump in soundstage. It's funny because high treble / air over 10 kHz was one of the things that impressed me most about the ZS12. It's another one of those things that comes down to being able to tweak the frequence response curve to your preferences. I think soundstage on the ZS12s is pretty average for IEMs, which is to say very good, but definitely shy of an open-backed over-ears headphone. thanks for the detailed response! cheers

 

[Singaravelan]

its pretty impressive change from from neutral-ish to bassy tuned.

Is there a non-bassy (as in not too overwhelming) version with proper treble extension on this? Good matured sq?
Had meant to PTT on these but never got around doing it, and then forgot.

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

its pretty impressive change from from neutral-ish to bassy tuned.

yep. it changes the perception of the mids when the bass is behaving. 0010 is quite neutral sounding to my ear and I've listened to them that way for a couple of sessions by now for orchestral / chamber works. As an avid EQ'er it's no surprise that I like being able to switch them around.

edit: @Singaravelan just get the switched version. there's a dip in the treble that's uncharacteristic to KZ which keeps everything buttery smooth. They have enough air for me at 1100 but listening at 0010 or 0001 might work for you. Using Tri Clarion tips was a big upgrade IMO in transparency and increased subbass response. Treble seems cleaner with the tip roll as well.