[PhonoPhi]

1)any difference in the detail retrieval between the AS10 and AS12? how's the soundstage for both of them? and their sound signature? since it's kinda hard to find impressions for the as10 and as12 (especially compared to one another-- so I'm really thankful for the treble comparison @PhonoPhi ), most reviews are out for the as16 -_-

2)The thing I really liked about the e3000s are their soundstage and warm signature. are there any members of the hybrid/BA lineup in KZ/CCA that will be similar/better in the soundstage and detail department?

Trying to answer briefly first of "the top of my head":
AS10 main strength is mids, the bass is nice and warmish and the treble is gently curtailed with very decent resolution preservation

The main strength of AS12 is the best BA bass (I have heard, both intensity and response), mids are OK. Treble cut off is too much for me, but it is fairly easy to bring back and to mod - ask Master Slater.
Compared to E3000, both BAs will be "wow" in resolution. How much you will like signature and timbre - depends. From KZ and CCA, those two are most fitting to try after E3000, in my opinion.
AS16 will be no-no
C16 - may be

Soundstage perceprion is very subjective, as they say. For me C16 is where I notice it most, it us also very good for AS16 and AS12, but I am perfectly OK with a perception of a very compact stage of NX7pro, for instance, it is compensated by nice resolution for me.

E3000 have not left me with special soundstage impressions, but that what I will be happy to look back and compare tonight after work and will report back

 

[Lolito]

my blon bl-03 broke after 2 months only... what would be the KZ alternative, flat sounding, with a bit of bass up, no piercing highs please, no v shapes please. say 50$ max... got a sennheiser hd25 cans for on the go, but I would like to give chifi iem's a second and last chance... my sony's 40€ iems sound worse, are more expensive than blon, can't replace cable, but, they last much longer, and have a proper warranty no questions asked... they sound worse, but they didn't break... zs10 pro or zsx can be good options? thanks in advance for the help, appreciated.

 

[Sebulr]

my blon bl-03 broke after 2 months only... what would be the KZ alternative, flat sounding, with a bit of bass up, no piercing highs please, no v shapes please. say 50$ max... got a sennheiser hd25 cans for on the go, but I would like to give chifi iem's a second and last chance... my sony's 40€ iems sound worse, are more expensive than blon, can't replace cable, but, they last much longer, and have a proper warranty no questions asked... they sound worse, but they didn't break... zs10 pro or zsx can be good options? thanks in advance for the help, appreciated.

Er probably the zsr. They have a rather large shell however. Plenty of bass and a bit of air uptop. Lower treble is slightly more than the blon because of a BA in the nozzle. Zs10 pro has quite a bit more lower treble than both of those, but is very nice. It's my daily driver. The zsr is a bit more easy going because it has an 8khz dip, if you are treble sensitive.

 

[PhonoPhi]

1)any difference in the detail retrieval between the AS10 and AS12? how's the soundstage for both of them? and their sound signature? since it's kinda hard to find impressions for the as10 and as12 (especially compared to one another-- so I'm really thankful for the treble comparison @PhonoPhi ), most reviews are out for the as16 -_-

2)The thing I really liked about the e3000s are their soundstage and warm signature. are there any members of the hybrid/BA lineup in KZ/CCA that will be similar/better in the soundstage and detail department?

I was listening tonight, comparing these IEMs.

It made me appreciate E3000 and Final tips more. E3000 are really soothing warm, you can listen for hours if not days, and an impressive sound stage, a bit specific to for me due to its warmth, but nice.

One thing to note, E3000 required significantly higher volume settings to sound about the same - 27 vs. ~17 for AS10 and ~15 for AS12.

In detail retrieval AS12 are a bit more clear, definitely less grainy, but a bit more L-shaped. Again, AS12 have the best BA bass on a budget to me; you need to get two good Knowles to beat it. AS10 feel more rich the mids, closer to E3000 in timbre (but different as BAs vs. DD).

Both AS12 and AS10 are more airy so the soundstage feeling is a bit different from E3000, but very good to me.

AS10 have a bit less of a sound stage compared AS12. AS10 are also more grainy, you will notice it immediately after smoothest E3000. I like this graininess for some strings.
AS10 are warmer to me, indeed it brings some colorarion. AS10 are also quite impedance-dependent. I run it today through IEMatch and it felt more sterile.
AS10 are more than two-year model. I love them back then and still return to them quite often.

AS12 are noticeably nicer made, as the latest of all-BA KZ.
If you ever find treble too much, you can easily put some micropore tape on top of the mesh. If you ever wonder about more treble - you may start to play with the treble filters inside.

Finally, the tips. I usually use wide-bore ones, Spiral Dots and similar. When I put Final tips on AS10 and AS12, the bass became more pronounced, with more prominent nicer mid-bass.
Nice tips!
Vice versa, E3000 lost quite a bit of their warm charm with wide-bore tips.
So playing with the tips definitely helps

 

[purplesun]

AS10 ... more grainy, ... I like this graininess for some strings. AS10 are warmer to me, indeed it brings some coloration. AS10 are more than two-year model. I love them back then and still return to them quite often.

Yah, it's like marmite, brussel sprouts or durian - you either hate it or can't live without it!
Apologies to fans of the black, green or yellow gooey stuff!

 

[onlyteagan]

IMHO, AS10 adds it own sound colouration. I prefer AS10 when listening to pre-2k music productions or watching TV using bluetooth. It adds some richness that was not in the original material. For me, I think Bon Jovi should sound good on AS10. The AS12 has a more transparent presentation and more balanced across the FR, whereas AS10 can be a bit deaf at higher trebles (eg: cymbals & such). For treble reference, the A10 & ZSN's treble were too strong for my ears. I think AS10 has a fuller sounding bass, but neither IEMs has the deep atmospheric bass of a well-driven DDs.

Nice, the as10 seems interesting now, but is it possible to reduce the treble? maybe with foam mods?

@SiggyFraud 's TRN BA5 recommendation is also interesting, how's the soundstage of the BA5s?

 

[onlyteagan]

I was listening tonight, comparing these IEMs.

It made me appreciate E3000 and Final tips more. E3000 are really soothing warm, you can listen for hours if not days, and an impressive sound stage, a bit specific to for me due to its warmth, but nice.

One thing to note, E3000 required significantly higher volume settings to sound about the same - 27 vs. ~17 for AS10 and ~15 for AS12.

In detail retrieval AS12 are a bit more clear, definitely less grainy, but a bit more L-shaped. Again, AS12 have the best BA bass on a budget to me; you need to get two good Knowles to beat it. AS10 feel more rich the mids, closer to E3000 in timbre (but different as BAs vs. DD).

Both AS12 and AS10 are more airy so the soundstage feeling is a bit different from E3000, but very good to me.

AS10 have a bit less of a sound stage compared AS12. AS10 are also more grainy, you will notice it immediately after smoothest E3000. I like this graininess for some strings.
AS10 are warmer to me, indeed it brings some colorarion. AS10 are also quite impedance-dependent. I run it today through IEMatch and it felt more sterile.
AS10 are more than two-year model. I love them back then and still return to them quite often.

AS12 are noticeably nicer made, as the latest of all-BA KZ.
If you ever find treble too much, you can easily put some micropore tape on top of the mesh. If you ever wonder about more treble - you may start to play with the treble filters inside.

Finally, the tips. I usually use wide-bore ones, Spiral Dots and similar. When I put Final tips on AS10 and AS12, the bass became more pronounced, with more prominent nicer mid-bass.
Nice tips!
Vice versa, E3000 lost quite a bit of their warm charm with wide-bore tips.
So playing with the tips definitely helps

Wow, thanks for the amazing comparison!

any idea which of the as12/as10 will be more "organic" sounding for female soloists?

thanks again

 

[purplesun]

Nice, the as10 seems interesting now, but is it possible to reduce the treble? maybe with foam mods?

Cut the treble? Have never tried to reduce treble on AS10. I sometimes try to boost the treble instead, by using brighter DAPs. The AS10's upper treble is quite tame compared lots of other IEMs. It should be fine, as it is, if you are treble-sensitive.

 

[PhonoPhi]

Wow, thanks for the amazing comparison!

any idea which of the as12/as10 will be more "organic" sounding for female soloists?

thanks again

It was fun, comparing them and appreciating the strength of E3000 (I am less of a DD person, and more into treble than bass)

First, a bit of digression, you probably were asked (or thought or already did): Blon BL03 - to me it is the most organic signature and a good DD complement to E3000.

For female singers, not my primary listening area, I would say all 3 colour due to more overtones in female voice. E3000 do most naturally, AS10 closer (you may like or dislike graininess). In AS12 the treble is dampened, so the perception may vary, I found the sound a bit striangulated, some love it.

For the foam - absolutely, AS10 will be easier just to put the foam into nozzles, since their protective mesh is deep inside. I think, if you ever feel the need - you would be rather taming high mids, the treble is rolled off quite a bit.

 

[Nimweth]

TRN BA5 is a great example of a clear sounding, yet non-fatiguing, all BA set. Been listening to it for a week now, and had absolutely no issues with harshness. And I'm not a treble head

Agreed. And don't forget the BA10, also a very good all BA set with excellent tonality and very nice bass.

 

[onlyteagan]

It was fun, comparing them and appreciating the strength of E3000 (I am less of a DD person, and more into treble than bass)

First, a bit of digression, you probably were asked (or thought or already did): Blon BL03 - to me it is the most organic signature and a good DD complement to E3000.

For female singers, not my primary listening area, I would say all 3 colour due to more overtones in female voice. E3000 do most naturally, AS10 closer (you may like or dislike graininess). In AS12 the treble is dampened, so the perception may vary, I found the sound a bit striangulated, some love it.

For the foam - absolutely, AS10 will be easier just to put the foam into nozzles, since their protective mesh is deep inside. I think, if you ever feel the need - you would be rather taming high mids, the treble is rolled off quite a bit.

what do you know, i just ordered the BLON BL03 a few minutes before I read your post... the BLON was one of my other "wanted chifi" items, aside from the KZ BAs, after hearing all the opinions, I'll probably aim for the AS10 next, and see how I'll fare with the sound.

regarding the BA10, @Nimweth , I don't think it'll fit in my ears well enough, but I gotta admit, I really like the Red-Gold Iron man color of the BA10 haha

 

[Johnny Golden]

my blon bl-03 broke after 2 months only... what would be the KZ alternative, flat sounding, with a bit of bass up, no piercing highs please, no v shapes please. say 50$ max... got a sennheiser hd25 cans for on the go, but I would like to give chifi iem's a second and last chance... my sony's 40€ iems sound worse, are more expensive than blon, can't replace cable, but, they last much longer, and have a proper warranty no questions asked... they sound worse, but they didn't break... zs10 pro or zsx can be good options? thanks in advance for the help, appreciated.

Sorry to hear about that. May I ask where you got your Bl-03's from. Most retailers do offer a warranty, for example Linsoul's is 1 year. What went wrong with them as well. A lot of people say the cheap included cable breaks causing people to think they are broken when they are not.

Pretty much all KZ's are v shaped however so are the Blon's. The difference in my opinion is that the Blon's have a slightly warmer sound with more bas than treble and most KZ's have a slightly brighter sound with more treble than bass. They can be quite similar though.

In the KZ range my pick would be the ZS10 pro's (not normal ZS10's). These are closer to the Blon's. Alternatively, I have hear that the new IEM from KZ's sister company, the CCA CA16 is more neutral with a solid low end punch and apparently amazing midrange. You can get 10% off them from Linsoul at the moment.

 

[purplesun]

what do you know, i just ordered the BLON BL03 a few minutes before I read your post... the BLON was one of my other "wanted chifi" items, aside from the KZ BAs, after hearing all the opinions, I'll probably aim for the AS10 next, and see how I'll fare with the sound.

If your ears can fit the Blon properly, and can drive it well - it's probably a side-grade or step-down to AS10, sound-wise. Only good reason left getting the AS10, would then be its very good sound isolation.

 

[Johnny Golden]

If your ears can fit the Blon properly, and can drive it well - it's probably a side-grade or step-down to AS10, sound-wise. Only good reason left getting the AS10, would then be its very good sound isolation.

What would you consider as the KZ step up from Blon Bl-03

 

[purplesun]

What would you consider as the KZ step up from Blon Bl-03

Can't answer you that as most of my KZ's are BAs only, whereas BL-03 is DD only. The CCA-C10 BA/DD hybrid is what I think sounds quite close to BL-03. It's little less of BL03's mid/bass presence and a bit shinier in the treble region. It's more v-shaped FR than BL-03. I think there's a few KZ IEMs that's sister product to CCA-C10. I don't have them though. Some one here will chime in, I am sure.

EDIT: Just went up a few post earlier and read your other post, I sort of overlapped with your advise as well.