[PhonoPhi]

Anybody tried either of these? Newish looking KZ ZSN Pro X and the KZ ZST-X. Both IEM are identical in layout - 10mm DD and a single 30095 BA inserted right in the middle of ye olden cranium torture tube. Expecting a big vee sound and treble peaks. I'm keen on both, of course!

The ZSN Pro X seems to have an updated DD and the specs deviate:

ZSN Pro X: 25 ohm, 112 dB, 7-40,000 kHz
ZST-X: 12 ohm, 107 dB, 20-20,000 kHz

I have ZSN Pro X.
At the time, where I got them, it was thought that they have XUN drivers (now we know that they don't).
Mine (and overall, I beleive) impression of Pro X was quite mute/meh. Too powerful bass and some disconnect between DD and BA drivers. I definitely prefer good old ZSN, ZSN pro and CA4 to ZSN Pro X.

Pro X became a nozzle donor to one of my ASX pairs

CSN are definitely better as well, and DQ6 even more so to my ears.

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

Thanks, fellas. Hmm ... sounds a lot like unnecessary brutality.

edit:

I asked because I was reading a review earlier on the Reecho Spring, which also uses same tweeter model. Penon's store describes it as a 1DD and 2BA setup, but the description is not clear:



So how is it that Reecho gets reviewed as "bright" and KZ is commonly known as "piercing"? Is it KZ's house brand that's just hotter, or is it the fact that the BA sits in the nozzle I wonder.

Most hybrids that feature 30095 it is placed in the nozzle. And, that placement inherently doesn't mean that it is going to have piercing/bright treble. As I learnt from BQEYZ KB100 that also features the same BA in the nozzle but has one of the smoothest trebles for a hybrid under $50.

KZ's peaks are more or less centred around the female poison zone of upper mids and treble. So many westerners find them piercing and harsh. Also, ZSN Pro X won't have more treble than BA10 that's what my assumption is because pre 2018 KZ was hotter than ZSN and it's subsequent iterations

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Thanks, fellas. Hmm ... sounds a lot like unnecessary brutality.

edit:

I asked because I was reading a review earlier on the Reecho Spring, which also uses same tweeter model. Penon's store describes it as a 1DD and 2BA setup, but the description is not clear:

The KZ’s old 30095 tuning got some unique spikes with 10db amplitudes, so when it comes to play modern mixed tracks this spike could get aggressively piercing, for acoustics tracks it will not be as piercing as digital tracks, but the sound of high pitch resonance or cymbals decay will sound grainy or unnatural to my impression.

Although, I did like old KZ V though, ZS5 is still entertaining. It’s like McDonald’s french fries, pretty addictive, but not a thing you can continuously eating for ages.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I have ZSN Pro X.
At the time, where I got them, it was thought that they have XUN drivers (now we know that they don't).
Mine (and overall, I beleive) impression of Pro X was quite mute/meh. Too powerful bass and some disconnect between DD and BA drivers. I definitely prefer good old ZSN, ZSN pro and CA4 to ZSN Pro X.

Pro X became a nozzle donor to one of my ASX pairs

CSN are definitely better as well, and DQ6 even more so to my ears.

To my understanding, the innovative aspect of XUN driver is that it has an unique internal acoustic camber that enhances, or turboboost, bass resonance with that structure. So that it could serve as a stand-alone bass frequencies only proprietary unit, free up the shell design, let BAs handling the higher registers.

Which enabled KZ to move away from old style of “addition” style sound building, which is based on dynamic driver handling all frequencies with BAs handling extra detailing. But this style of “addition” could easily get messed, the incoherence was the neck.

The XUN driver enabled KZ to re-design their new sound building based on philosophy of “subtraction”, ZAS is a good example, they changed the way of design and tuning the sound signature. The result was less spikes, more cohesive IEMs, and more comfortable shells

I like KZ because they never surrendered, even if they fail, they kept coming back, try and error spirit is something I admire of KZ.

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

Which enabled KZ to move away from old style of “addition” style sound building, which is based on dynamic driver handling all frequencies with BAs handling extra detailing. But this style of “addition” could easily get messed, the incoherence was the neck.

Yeah, I think they've suffered from cheap shell materials and no attention to early shell design on the impact of the sound. Some small tweaks in the casings would have likely contributed to a much better outcome. I am going to try the ZAS based on your recc and their description on the redesign for blending the output from its 7 BAs over the ZAX.

Here's a fun little comparison IEM, also widely known as being vee shaped and ringing it at $900. I'm not here to rag on this company - I expect I'd like the product .. (just am not going to pay $900 for one).

Manufacturer provided description:

"One balanced armature and one dynamic driver. No cross-over, no complications. We’ve found these distilled pairings reproduce sound more faithfully, with improved resolution and cohesion than those with over-complicated cross-over schemes.

The result is a detailed yet natural sound. They are resolving and emotionally engaging—a true hybrid in design and sonic presentation."

Accolades from headfi about above IEM:

+ Great Bass - Detailed & dense
+ Very Fun sounding
+ Fun v-shaped tune with good technical capabilities


As for the ZST, RTNGS.COM says of the ZST's bottom end - "High-bass, responsible for warmth, is overemphasized by more than 3dB, making the bass of these headphones a bit boomy and muddy. " check the graph ... they are actually less subbass than the higher cost IEM.

Our trusty headfiers basically said: "these rock. get some."

"yes, you are spending twice as much in the cable than the ZiEM, but for $60 you will end up with a pair of IEMs which, to my ears, sound better than, for example, $180 Etymotic ER3XRs"

"I've had a pair for about a month ... using them with the Comply foam tips and man ... they are astonishing. I recently lost my Shure SE530's and honestly? It didn't hurt a bit as these are 90% of the Shures ... LOL at the $17.00 price tag. Man ... "

Campfire Dorado bass vs. KZ's infamous "pinna gain".

 

[riodgarp]

did anyone here trying knowles acoustic damper with their kz?
and also I intersted with as10, are this iem has different sq from dq6? I prefer warmish sound sig

 

[PhonoPhi]

did anyone here trying knowles acoustic damper with their kz?
and also I intersted with as10, are this iem has different sq from dq6? I prefer warmish sound sig

AS10 can be called warm, definitely different from DQ6. While the later is all-DD, it is more energetic with more treble.

AS10 are the first KZ all-BA IEM, a younger sibling to BA10. AS10 arex warmish yet resolving, granularity of old BAs is there, the BA bass is gorgeous to my ears, while tonality is definitely skewed (cello sounding like double basses may be a blasphemy to some, to me it is just a miracle )
AS10 made me a KZ fan, and I still come back to good old AS10 often (while the second back-up pair is unwrapped, KZs are reliable ).

An objective testament to AS10 is that its price dropped the least of KZ IEMs from original $45 three+ years ago.

Closest in some aspects to AS10 recent IEM are AST.
AST are again most un-KZ KZ, no more sparkling V, mighty BA bass. So if you are concerned with treble - AST offer it smooth (if not too much contained) plus beautiful resolution of upper mids from their new BA array.
Another IEM to consider along these lines are CCA CA16 (C16 as well actually, they have treble filters).

Using Knowles dampers sound like an interesting idea, but I have not heard of anyone trying it. The main "offender", 30095, is really tiny.
Dampening with foam/cotton in the nozzle is the most effective and widely used strategy/approach.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

AS10 can be called warm, definitely different from DQ6. While the later is all-DD, it is more energetic with more treble.

AS10 are the first KZ all-BA IEM, a younger sibling to BA10. AS10 arex warmish yet resolving, granularity of old BAs is there, the BA bass is gorgeous to my ears, while tonality is definitely skewed (cello sounding like double basses may be a blasphemy to some, to me it is just a miracle )
AS10 made me a KZ fan, and I still come back to good old AS10 often (while the second back-up pair is unwrapped, KZs are reliable ).

An objective testament to AS10 is that its price dropped the least of KZ IEMs from original $45 three+ years ago.

Closest in some aspects to AS10 recent IEM are AST.
AST are again most un-KZ KZ, no more sparkling V, mighty BA bass. So if you are concerned with treble - AST offer it smooth (if not too much contained) plus beautiful resolution of upper mids from their new BA array.
Another IEM to consider along these lines are CCA CA16 (C16 as well actually, they have treble filters).

Using Knowles dampers sound like an interesting idea, but I have not heard of anyone trying it. The main "offender", 30095, is really tiny.
Dampening with foam/cotton in the nozzle is the most effective and widely used strategy/approach.

Agree, the AS10 was my hook to KZ too, ZS6 called my attention by its 1BA+2DD, fun V-tuned tonality, then AS10 with mighty bass, and another entertaining IEM with a cost of fractions of cheapest Shure/UE. That was mind blowing for someone thought for $50 all you could get was a pair of Panasonic /AKG / Sennheiser /Sony’s low cost single DD earbuds /IEM.

Yes AS10 / AST aligned on same course for that sense, it’s mighty bass, with Diffusion Field target (focused upper mid, with rolled off treble). Sadly this tuning is kind self-contradictory, the bass cancels out the diffusion, but that’s the thing exits, multi driver could help to ease that bass bleed and making each frequency bands to stand out.

If anyone likes AS10/AST tuning, there is an endgame, GS Audio released full BA model with this AST approach, with ST10, it’s less bass elevated, but still the floor is near bass-head region. The DF target curve enabled ST10 to produce an extremely wide diffusion field too. This ST10 is composed by 10BA (Sonion for bass up till upper mid, Knowles TWFK 4BA for super tweeters), and is a tech monster.

 

[saldsald]

Agree, the AS10 was my hook to KZ too, ZS6 called my attention by its 1BA+2DD, fun V-tuned tonality, then AS10 with mighty bass, and another entertaining IEM with a cost of fractions of cheapest Shure/UE. That was mind blowing for someone thought for $50 all you could get was a pair of Panasonic /AKG / Sennheiser /Sony’s low cost single DD earbuds /IEM.

Yes AS10 / AST aligned on same course for that sense, it’s mighty bass, with Diffusion Field target (focused upper mid, with rolled off treble). Sadly this tuning is kind self-contradictory, the bass cancels out the diffusion, but that’s the thing exits, multi driver could help to ease that bass bleed and making each frequency bands to stand out.

If anyone likes AS10/AST tuning, there is an endgame, GS Audio released full BA model with this AST approach, with ST10, it’s less bass elevated, but still the floor is near bass-head region. The DF target curve enabled ST10 to produce an extremely wide diffusion field too. This ST10 is composed by 10BA (Sonion for bass up till upper mid, Knowles TWFK 4BA for super tweeters), and is a tech monster.

This ST10 is actually (I think) also known as L12 or L12P made by Leisurely Audio. Not cheap...mmmm...

 

[mndless]

This ST10 is actually (I think) also known as L12 or L12P made by Leisurely Audio. Not cheap...mmmm...

I think the GT12 would probably be the more direct upgrade from the AST in terms of price, since it's only about twice the cost of AST instead of close to four times. The main difference is the use of custom-tuned Bellsing drivers for the HF and UHF drivers instead of the combination of Sonion and Knowles in the ST10. The ST10 also uses Sonion 37 series drivers for mids instead of the Sonion 33 series drivers. Both use Sonion 38 series drivers for sub-bass and mid-bass, so performance in that area should be spectacular on both.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

This ST10 is actually (I think) also known as L12 or L12P made by Leisurely Audio. Not cheap...mmmm...

ST10 is $430 and 10BA, is that Leisurely Audio L12 really ST10 mod? I see they listed as 12BAs. But surely it could be sourced from GS Audio.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I think the GT12 would probably be the more direct upgrade from the AST in terms of price, since it's only about twice the cost of AST instead of close to four times. The main difference is the use of custom-tuned Bellsing drivers for the HF and UHF drivers instead of the combination of Sonion and Knowles in the ST10. The ST10 also uses Sonion 37 series drivers for mids instead of the Sonion 33 series drivers. Both use Sonion 38 series drivers for sub-bass and mid-bass, so performance in that area should be spectacular on both.

Yea but the sound signature on GT12 is rather flat compared to ST10 or AST, so for that I was referring if someone really looking a same course of sound reproduction ST10 is the endgame.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

ST10 is $430 and 10BA, is that Leisurely Audio L12 really ST10 mod? I see they listed as 12BAs. But surely it could be sourced from GS Audio.

Just took a closer look, that LP12 is a GT12($230)’s mod, it looks very similar in terms of FR response and exactly same driver composition (sonion 38, sonion 33, and bellsing TWFK ), 15000 TWD goes to $541USD, wow what a rip off from $230(and if sourced as OEM, it surely will go $170ish)

ST10:
Sub-woofer: Sonion 38 AcuPass (2BA)
Bass-Mid: Sonion 37 (2BA)
Mid-Treble: Sonion 2389D (2BA)
Super Tweeter: Knowles SWFK (4BA)

GT12:
Sub-woofer: Sonion 38 AcuPass | 2BA
Lower Mid: Sonion 33 | 2BA
Upper Mid: 2 x GS Custom TWFK | 4BA
Super Tweeters: 2 x GS custom TWFK |

 

[saldsald]

ST10 is $430 and 10BA, is that Leisurely Audio L12 really ST10 mod? I see they listed as 12BAs. But surely it could be sourced from GS Audio.

No I mean they are THE SAME company. Didn't look into the ST10 and I thought it has 12 BAs

 

[saldsald]

Just took a closer look, that LP12 is a GT12($230)’s mod, it looks very similar in terms of FR response and exactly same driver composition (sonion 38, sonion 33, and bellsing TWFK ), 15000 TWD goes to $541USD, wow what a rip off from $230(and if sourced as OEM, it surely will go $170ish)


ST10:
Sub-woofer: Sonion 38 AcuPass (2BA)
Bass-Mid: Sonion 37 (2BA)
Mid-Treble: Sonion 2389D (2BA)
Super Tweeter: Knowles SWFK (4BA)

GT12:
Sub-woofer: Sonion 38 AcuPass | 2BA
Lower Mid: Sonion 33 | 2BA
Upper Mid: 2 x GS Custom TWFK | 4BA
Super Tweeters: 2 x GS custom TWFK |

The L12 has been around for a while and it has Knowles instead of Bellsing BAs.