[ProfFalkin]

We could get into a big argument over something that has no factual basis.

Isn't that exactly what we do in audio? Hehehe

Anyway, I completely agree. Passing any judgement at this point would be moronic.

 

[Grodzman]

I think regardless of what we do there will be a big discussion about the sound, as there's no one-size-fits-all product for anybody. After we evaluated a slew of drivers (note, drivers, not headphones), we found the biocellulose Foster drivers to be amongst the best in a number of areas.
 
I definitely agree with some of the above comments - V-shaped, boomy headphones exist that use this exact same driver. Now, that being said, that isn't a very good indication of the driver's performance, but the headphone as a whole. Change venting, filter paper, ear pad material, and all the sudden that changes sound in a huge way.
 
As far as raw speaker performance, the free-edge design, the biocellulose diaphragm, and the beefy construction make it a superb driver.
 
Now, for product updates - I know we've been dragging our feet here a little bit, but that's because we're right in between prototype phase and kicking off tooling. We've spent the last month working on mechanical implementation (essentially ensuring that we have 35mm of headband sliding, beefing up the pin that holds the earcup yoke to the headband, adding a bit more cushion to the underside of the top of the headband, and designing plugs, yokes, cables, and accessories). At the end of this month we're en route to Japan to sit down with all the engineers involved and firm up the details before we kick off several hundred thousand dollars worth of tooling to create the pieces and parts that make this thing.
 
Our acoustical engineer has spent the better part of the month sampling various baffles and driver recesses. I think he's very close to a workable design that we're all happy with. Additionally we've finalized the magnetic attachment mechanism and earpad construction (with metal plate). 
 
It may sound like all these steps are a bit minor, but I'd like to let everyone know that each piece is no small task. When you work on an entry-level headphone all these pieces are often considered an afterthought, but when we're talking about a flagship line like this, absolutely every piece goes under scrutiny. The baffle plate, the yoke, the headband mechanism, the headband padding, the earpad alignment posts, the baffle screws, the venting holes and locations, even the grill that protects the driver have all been worked over, sampled, assembled, and pieced together to work great. As we speak we're growing prototypes of the custom 1/4 adapter and 3.5mm plug housing underneath to validate that the press-mount 1/4 adapter works and fits exactly how we want it to.
 
We've also finished a first pass of the headphone stand and initial packaging concept. I'll be sharing all this stuff in March once we have confirmation that it's affordable and manufacturable. I'd rather not post a bunch of pictures of things we aren't 100% certain we can build/afford, but rather deliver the goods once we're comfortable that this is what you'll be getting in the box.

 

[Daemon Ursus]

I for one can't wait to see what you guys have made so far, I know some people misinterpreted my post as an attack. Nothing could be farther from the truth, I really like the way these look, I want them to be excellent. I can't wait to get my hands on a pair. The way you have responded to community input, greater padding in the headband, new jacks for the cups, etcetera, shows that you care. You are not just trying to dump an underperforming slightly rebranded headphone into the market as a "cash grab." I look forward to hearing what comes of your trip to Japan and hope to see some pictures of the latest revision when you feel they are ready to be shown.  

 

[ProfFalkin]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

I think regardless of what we do there will be a big discussion about the sound, as there's no one-size-fits-all product for anybody. After we evaluated a slew of drivers (note, drivers, not headphones), we found the biocellulose Foster drivers to be amongst the best in a number of areas.

I definitely agree with some of the above comments - V-shaped, boomy headphones exist that use this exact same driver. Now, that being said, that isn't a very good indication of the driver's performance, but the headphone as a whole. Change venting, filter paper, ear pad material, and all the sudden that changes sound in a huge way.

As far as raw speaker performance, the free-edge design, the biocellulose diaphragm, and the beefy construction make it a superb driver.

Now, for product updates - I know we've been dragging our feet here a little bit, but that's because we're right in between prototype phase and kicking off tooling. We've spent the last month working on mechanical implementation (essentially ensuring that we have 35mm of headband sliding, beefing up the pin that holds the earcup yoke to the headband, adding a bit more cushion to the underside of the top of the headband, and designing plugs, yokes, cables, and accessories). At the end of this month we're en route to Japan to sit down with all the engineers involved and firm up the details before we kick off several hundred thousand dollars worth of tooling to create the pieces and parts that make this thing.

Our acoustical engineer has spent the better part of the month sampling various baffles and driver recesses. I think he's very close to a workable design that we're all happy with. Additionally we've finalized the magnetic attachment mechanism and earpad construction (with metal plate). 

It may sound like all these steps are a bit minor, but I'd like to let everyone know that each piece is no small task. When you work on an entry-level headphone all these pieces are often considered an afterthought, but when we're talking about a flagship line like this, absolutely every piece goes under scrutiny. The baffle plate, the yoke, the headband mechanism, the headband padding, the earpad alignment posts, the baffle screws, the venting holes and locations, even the grill that protects the driver have all been worked over, sampled, assembled, and pieced together to work great. As we speak we're growing prototypes of the custom 1/4 adapter and 3.5mm plug housing underneath to validate that the press-mount 1/4 adapter works and fits exactly how we want it to.

We've also finished a first pass of the headphone stand and initial packaging concept. I'll be sharing all this stuff in March once we have confirmation that it's affordable and manufacturable. I'd rather not post a bunch of pictures of things we aren't 100% certain we can build/afford, but rather deliver the goods once we're comfortable that this is what you'll be getting in the box.

Thanks for the update! Its good to get a little insight to the whole process.

You spoke of the custom 1/4 adaptor and 3.5mm plug. Is this going to be a special design, or more of a universal plug design? I'm not a huge fan of twist and clip plugs if it means sacrificing universal plug use, but I understand why they're implemented on some products.

Thanks again!

 

[Riley Beale]

I was not super interested in these to begin with.  These have suddenly peaked my interest especially with Klipsch being actively involved here and asking for suggestions on the product.  I am now very interested.  Subbed.
 
Cheers
 
Riley

 

[rthomas]

It’s highly commendable that you’re interacting with the community and giving us a view from the inside of the development process.
 
Please spend as much as possible on how the headphone fits and sounds and allocate as little resources as possible to the packaging and other ‘’fluff’’.
 
This community has put up with horrible ergonomics (Audeze), cheap build quality (Hifiman) and a lot of other things in the pursuit of sound.
Give us a cheap cardboard box, zero marketing material and an amazing headphone which sounds better than anything below $2000 and you’re going to sell boatloads and nobody is going to care about the box.
 
In terms of sound signature:
 
Nobody I know listens to a stock HD800 for pleasure (don’t go for too bright)
 
Very few people love the Audioquest Nighthawk (too bassy, muffled and dark) and they have been discounted to $299 even though their replacements are exactly the same except for the pads and a few other small details.
 
Everybody seems to adore the Focal Utopia. Neutral with a touch of warmth while not sacrificing bass performance and impact.
 
I wish you guys the best. Really hope you can help reverse the trend of $4000 headphones with an excellent sub $2000 offering.

 

[ProfFalkin]

Please spend as much as possible on how the headphone fits and sounds and allocate as little resources as possible to the packaging and other ‘’fluff’’.

This community has put up with horrible ergonomics (Audeze), cheap build quality (Hifiman) and a lot of other things in the pursuit of sound.
Give us a cheap cardboard box, zero marketing material and an amazing headphone which sounds better than anything below $2000 and you’re going to sell boatloads and nobody is going to care about the box.

I agree with this SO MUCH.

I promise you, no matter how nice you make the packaging, I'm not going to listen to the box it came in.

 

[Grodzman]

Thanks for the update! Its good to get a little insight to the whole process.

You spoke of the custom 1/4 adaptor and 3.5mm plug. Is this going to be a special design, or more of a universal plug design? I'm not a huge fan of twist and clip plugs if it means sacrificing universal plug use, but I understand why they're implemented on some products.

Thanks again!

 
Here's what we did - I wanted a press-fit 1/4" adapter to fit over the 3.5mm plug and I wanted it to be universal. So, the steps go like this from top to bottom:
 
1. 3.5mm plug (3.5mm OD) - minimum diameter
2. First step (5.95mm OD) - this is Apple's spec for case manufacturers, this cable WILL fit into an average phone + case combo
3. Second step (7.00mm OD) - this is the area that press fits inside the 1/4" adapter to create a smooth pressure fit
4. Third step (7.65mm OD) - this is the same outer diameter as the 1/4" adapter and buts up right to the adapter (making it look like one piece)
5. Strain relief (~7.00mm OD) - robust rubber strain relief that wraps over the cable
 
Long story short - you'll have a cable that looks at home whether you're plugging it into a phone (with a case on it), your own 1/4 adapter, OUR included 1/4 adapter, or anything else you need. So it's a mix of custom and universal. Being both compatible with any run of the mill 1/4" adapter and being more robust when you use ours is the goal.

 

[int_architect]

Spoiler: Warning: Full Qoute

I think regardless of what we do there will be a big discussion about the sound, as there's no one-size-fits-all product for anybody. After we evaluated a slew of drivers (note, drivers, not headphones), we found the biocellulose Foster drivers to be amongst the best in a number of areas.

I definitely agree with some of the above comments - V-shaped, boomy headphones exist that use this exact same driver. Now, that being said, that isn't a very good indication of the driver's performance, but the headphone as a whole. Change venting, filter paper, ear pad material, and all the sudden that changes sound in a huge way.

As far as raw speaker performance, the free-edge design, the biocellulose diaphragm, and the beefy construction make it a superb driver.

Now, for product updates - I know we've been dragging our feet here a little bit, but that's because we're right in between prototype phase and kicking off tooling. We've spent the last month working on mechanical implementation (essentially ensuring that we have 35mm of headband sliding, beefing up the pin that holds the earcup yoke to the headband, adding a bit more cushion to the underside of the top of the headband, and designing plugs, yokes, cables, and accessories). At the end of this month we're en route to Japan to sit down with all the engineers involved and firm up the details before we kick off several hundred thousand dollars worth of tooling to create the pieces and parts that make this thing.

Our acoustical engineer has spent the better part of the month sampling various baffles and driver recesses. I think he's very close to a workable design that we're all happy with. Additionally we've finalized the magnetic attachment mechanism and earpad construction (with metal plate). 

It may sound like all these steps are a bit minor, but I'd like to let everyone know that each piece is no small task. When you work on an entry-level headphone all these pieces are often considered an afterthought, but when we're talking about a flagship line like this, absolutely every piece goes under scrutiny. The baffle plate, the yoke, the headband mechanism, the headband padding, the earpad alignment posts, the baffle screws, the venting holes and locations, even the grill that protects the driver have all been worked over, sampled, assembled, and pieced together to work great. As we speak we're growing prototypes of the custom 1/4 adapter and 3.5mm plug housing underneath to validate that the press-mount 1/4 adapter works and fits exactly how we want it to.

We've also finished a first pass of the headphone stand and initial packaging concept. I'll be sharing all this stuff in March once we have confirmation that it's affordable and manufacturable. I'd rather not post a bunch of pictures of things we aren't 100% certain we can build/afford, but rather deliver the goods once we're comfortable that this is what you'll be getting in the box.

Thanks for the updates. This is very exciting. I feel like I'm sitting in the room with you guys!

 

[Daemon Ursus]

I agree with this SO MUCH.

I promise you, no matter how nice you make the packaging, I'm not going to listen to the box it came in.

While I agree they shouldn't spend too much on the box, it still needs to be nice. It needs to feel like I am opening a thousand dollar pair of headphones if that is what I am buying. I know people who have bought Hifiman headphones just because of the unboxing experience. Optimally, the packaging would be functional as a display box or stand, that way it doesn't feel like a waste of money. 

 

[pofdstudios]

Personally I am hoping for two sets of cables. (1) Single ended & (1) Balanced. And hopefully NO CELL PHONE cabling and No inline remotes etc. Would be nice to have a seriously high end quality set of cans without the cheesy cabling that usually gets included IE: Bowers and Wilkins etc. Thats my only disapointment with the Klipsch X20i's is that you cant replace the cable with anything above the cellphone remote...

 

[Grodzman]

  Personally I am hoping for two sets of cables. (1) Single ended & (1) Balanced. And hopefully NO CELL PHONE cabling and No inline remotes etc. Would be nice to have a seriously high end quality set of cans without the cheesy cabling that usually gets included IE: Bowers and Wilkins etc. Thats my only disapointment with the Klipsch X20i's is that you cant replace the cable with anything above the cellphone remote...

 
I really want to include a balanced cable but I think at the cost this one's out of the picture. You'll get a single ended-short (1.37m), a single-ended long (2.5m), and a 1/4" adapter. No microphones to speak of. Also, keep in mind that the "attach-rate" for balanced cables is less than 50%, so more than half of folks wouldn't end up using it if I put it in the box. However 70%+ will end up using the headphone stand. This is the annoying thing about product development - compromise.
 
That being said, I don't aim to make huge margins on accessories - a fair price for a fair product. You'll be able to get the cable you need from our site without paying an arm and a leg.
 
Speaking of X20i's, we'll be dropping non-mic cables on our website by the end of next month.

 

[Grodzman]

  While I agree they shouldn't spend too much on the box, it still needs to be nice. It needs to feel like I am opening a thousand dollar pair of headphones if that is what I am buying. I know people who have bought Hifiman headphones just because of the unboxing experience. Optimally, the packaging would be functional as a display box or stand, that way it doesn't feel like a waste of money. 

 
Your voices have been heard. After getting your feedback I quickly changed the materials of the box from birch plywood with walnut veneer to MDF and a vinyl wood finish. I figured it will still look the part, be more rugged, and in turn less "exotic". It'll cost quite a bit less but still look quite nice.

 

[pofdstudios]

   
I really want to include a balanced cable but I think at the cost this one's out of the picture. You'll get a single ended-short (1.37m), a single-ended long (2.5m), and a 1/4" adapter. No microphones to speak of. Also, keep in mind that the "attach-rate" for balanced cables is less than 50%, so more than half of folks wouldn't end up using it if I put it in the box. However 70%+ will end up using the headphone stand. This is the annoying thing about product development - compromise.
 
That being said, I don't aim to make huge margins on accessories - a fair price for a fair product. You'll be able to get the cable you need from our site without paying an arm and a leg.
 
Speaking of X20i's, we'll be dropping non-mic cables on our website by the end of next month.

Thanks for the reply. I can see your reasoning about the cables but to be honest I have very peculiar tastes in home decor so Im sure that more than likely id give the headphone stand away. lol As far as the x20i's the news about the cable is a welcome one. Ill be ordering as soon as the replacement cables are available for purchase.

 

[Daemon Ursus]

   
I really want to include a balanced cable but I think at the cost this one's out of the picture. You'll get a single ended-short (1.37m), a single-ended long (2.5m), and a 1/4" adapter. No microphones to speak of. Also, keep in mind that the "attach-rate" for balanced cables is less than 50%, so more than half of folks wouldn't end up using it if I put it in the box. However 70%+ will end up using the headphone stand. This is the annoying thing about product development - compromise.
 
That being said, I don't aim to make huge margins on accessories - a fair price for a fair product. You'll be able to get the cable you need from our site without paying an arm and a leg.
 
Speaking of X20i's, we'll be dropping non-mic cables on our website by the end of next month.

I think you are making the right choice here, I think most people don't need or want a balanced cable in the box. Is there any chance you can show us what you are planning to include when you mention a stand? I am very curious about it.