Kitchen Knife-fi

[rangen]

hmai18's advice is right on. Don't bother with sets (the medium-sized chef's knife included in such sets is particularly useless), and you must handle knives before purchase. For example, the beautiful Shun knives, one of which is pictured earlier in this thread, are simply not for me because the handle is too small for my hand. The Global handles look like they would be too small for my hand, but they're just right. Mostly I use Chinese cleavers, though.

Another key issue is blade thickness. If you're chopping chives fine with the heel (I guess that's how people do it, I don't know, I'd just use a cleaver), then a nice heavy knife you can rock is good, and thickness is not a drawback. But just try making thin slices of something rigid like ginger or jicama or turnip with a thick knife. Not fun. So my most-used knives are:

Thin cleaver, for veggies and thin slices of meat (one fancy Sugimoto and one quite decent $10-in-Hong-Kong) using Chinese fast-chop techniques

Thicker cleaver, for all around work (Dexter)

Global 5" thin veggie knife

Then there are specialty knives that get pulled out for specialized tasks:

boning knives (one Global, one vintage carbon steel)

paring knife (Japanese layered steel, for maximum sharpness; paring knives are nearly useless if not super-sharp)

Bone-chopping Chinese cleaver (from Wok Shop in SF)

Serrated, Wusthof offset, for bread and tomatoes.

And the ones I don't use much:

David Boye chef's knife (fantastic, beautiful knife that I would use all the time if I used chef's knives instead of cleavers)

Kyocera black ceramic (I have sharpening skills, and it irritates me that I have to send it and $10 to get it sharpened after 6 months of use). Mostly I find this too lightweight for anything serious, but the best thing about it is that it's nonstick.

Various Japanese shapes (just don't fit what I cook).

 

[guitarman19853]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangen /img/forum/go_quote.gif hmai18's advice is right on. Don't bother with sets (the medium-sized chef's knife included in such sets is particularly useless), and you must handle knives before purchase. For example, the beautiful Shun knives, one of which is pictured earlier in this thread, are simply not for me because the handle is too small for my hand. The Global handles look like they would be too small for my hand, but they're just right. Mostly I use Chinese cleavers, though. Another key issue is blade thickness. If you're chopping chives fine with the heel (I guess that's how people do it, I don't know, I'd just use a cleaver), then a nice heavy knife you can rock is good, and thickness is not a drawback. But just try making thin slices of something rigid like ginger or jicama or turnip with a thick knife. Not fun. So my most-used knives are: Thin cleaver, for veggies and thin slices of meat (one fancy Sugimoto and one quite decent $10-in-Hong-Kong) using Chinese fast-chop techniques Thicker cleaver, for all around work (Dexter) Global 5" thin veggie knife Then there are specialty knives that get pulled out for specialized tasks: boning knives (one Global, one vintage carbon steel) paring knife (Japanese layered steel, for maximum sharpness; paring knives are nearly useless if not super-sharp) Bone-chopping Chinese cleaver (from Wok Shop in SF) Serrated, Wusthof offset, for bread and tomatoes. And the ones I don't use much: David Boye chef's knife (fantastic, beautiful knife that I would use all the time if I used chef's knives instead of cleavers) Kyocera black ceramic (I have sharpening skills, and it irritates me that I have to send it and $10 to get it sharpened after 6 months of use). Mostly I find this too lightweight for anything serious, but the best thing about it is that it's nonstick. Various Japanese shapes (just don't fit what I cook).

Thanks for the advice... I'm not sure where to begin really. Basically I just got my first place and have nothing to start out with. Thats why the sets look appealing to me. For example the set I bought, (they have a plain edge version that user reviews on Amazon look much better than the micro serrated) I know I would need the chefs knife, bread knife, steak knives, and one of the medium sized ones in between the paring and chefs. Thats all but 3 of the knives. I do have a paring knife. Thats the only thing I have.

Oh the other thing, even my experience cooking is limited so right now, if it can cut it will be good. But I don't want to buy something so bottom end that as soon as I do learn some skill I will want to upgrade. Like the $30 17 piece sets, I know they're crap.

I do own a few high quality pocket knives so I know a bit about honing and what makes a good blade. Though it seems kitchen cutlery seems to use a higher carbon steel. I only mention this because I do understand the advantages of higher quality steels (I'm a fan of S30V in pocket knives) so you don't have to start with the absolute beginning with me... but pretty close.

Are there any sets that are somewhat decent for $100 where I might get a couple years use out of the main blades before I realize I need better? Because what I think I would do is get a set for now to start with... then once I become better I can get a couple high quality blades to replace the more used ones such as the chefs knife and paring knife... But stuff like a bread knife and steak knives are useful to me and would continue to see use.

 

[jenneth]

Quote:

Oh the other thing, even my experience cooking is limited so right now, if it can cut it will be good. But I don't want to buy something so bottom end that as soon as I do learn some skill I will want to upgrade. Like the $30 17 piece sets, I know they're crap.

A good knife will last decades (if you take care of it), so IMO, I think it's worth while to invest on something good even if it's your first kitchen knife.

If you want to learn more about kitchen knives, Knifeforums.com is a good place to start.

 

[rangen]

Let's see, this is not so easy. You need a bunch of knives, for an amount of money that means they're not going to be good. I grant you that your question is perfectly valid, in that there are doubtless differentiations to be made at this price range, as at all ranges. But your test sets too high a bar: if you spend a couple of years working with knives, yes, you will find some things wanting.

I think that the best advice I can give you is this:

Go in person to a local restaurant supply store, where you should find cheap-but-serviceable steak knives and likely other knives. The restaurant business is thrifty but values stuff that actually works, so you won't be paying for glamor but won't be getting unusably cheap crap.

If you find that you are able to get everything so cheaply that you have a bunch of money left over, then spend the extra on a good chef's knife, since that's what you'll mostly be working with.

 

[dj_mocok]

If you use proper Japanese knives, it will increase your attack +15, agility +12
Although it will significantly decrease your gold.

 

[derek800]

Has anyone used Cutco Knives? I have a friend that loves his, they seem pretty sharp.

 

[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_mocok /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you use proper Japanese knives, it will increase your attack +15, agility +12 Although it will significantly decrease your gold.

Don't forget to pick up at least one small silver blade for roast lycanthrope.

And a good chopping block is as important as a good knife. Get it first, or you'll be sorry.

 

[hmai18]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarman19853 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know I would need the chefs knife, bread knife, steak knives, and one of the medium sized ones in between the paring and chefs. Thats all but 3 of the knives. I do have a paring knife. Thats the only thing I have.

I bought my Henckels honing steel on ebay: eBay Store - Henckels for Less:

You can get an 8" chef's knife from them for between $50-$60, leaving you $40 for a utility knife or a bread knife. But honestly, I haven't found a task in the kitchen that couldn't be handled my my 8" chef's or my 4" paring.

 

[dj_mocok]

I have one of these Glestain Western Deba (16cm one).
It will give your character +15 attack on fishbone, hard vegies, and even chicken bone.
Because it's quite short one and very stable, it also adds +10 on agility.

My partner uses it to fine slice carrots.

 

[jonoliew]

i'm currently using wusthof classics and a few jap blue steel knives. Anyone has trouble with staining on the jap knives? Wish i could afford the tamahagane ones..

 

[gspence2000]

I am a serious cook and knife skills are important to me.

I use Sabatier 4 Star Elephant 8" and 10" carbon steel chef's knives. There are a handful of companies that sell knives under the Sabatier name, but the ones with the 4 Star Elephant mark are the real thing (from Thiers-Issard).

I use carbon steel because it will hold a sharper edge than stainless. The disadvantage is that it requires sharpening more often. I use the "paper wheel" method of sharpening using a bench grinder (worth googling if you aren't familiar with this sharpening technique).

I also have a 10" in stainless steel, and while it is a great knife, I can get a markedly sharper edge on the carbon steel one. For many tasks the extra sharpness does not matter, but if I am chopping onions or slicing tomatoes, it makes a big difference.

Highly recommended for the serious cook if you are willing to maintain the edge.

 

[kodreaming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's see, this is not so easy. You need a bunch of knives, for an amount of money that means they're not going to be good. I grant you that your question is perfectly valid, in that there are doubtless differentiations to be made at this price range, as at all ranges. But your test sets too high a bar: if you spend a couple of years working with knives, yes, you will find some things wanting. I think that the best advice I can give you is this: Go in person to a local restaurant supply store, where you should find cheap-but-serviceable steak knives and likely other knives. The restaurant business is thrifty but values stuff that actually works, so you won't be paying for glamor but won't be getting unusably cheap crap. If you find that you are able to get everything so cheaply that you have a bunch of money left over, then spend the extra on a good chef's knife, since that's what you'll mostly be working with.

I just checked out the Wok Shop website. They seem to have some cheap, but decent knifes.
I am thinking about getting the Dexter cleaver for all around purpose.
Do I need to get a Veg cleaver as well ? What about a chef-knife ?

Thanks.

 

[rangen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kodreaming /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, I just checked out the Wok Shop website. They seem to have some cheap, but decent knifes. But, for cleaver, should I just get a Carbon steel or the Dexter ?

Wok shop is a great store. Worth a visit if you're ever in SF.

The Dexter is a nice cleaver. I have one, and I use it a lot. The nice thing about stainless steel is that it's easy to reach for, you don't have to worry about drying it off, oiling, etc. And the Dexter's size, weight, and shape makes it really nice for lots of tasks.

However, the Dexter is a bit too thick to be your only cleaver. It's really nice for chopping, where the extra weight and sturdiness is a benefit, but not so nice for, say, making very thin slices of pork, or slicing turnips, because of the thickness. For the same reason, it's viable but not ideal for dicing an onion in the "restaurant way." It works, but the thick blade means you're doing more work than you need to.

I've not used the carbon steel cleavers that the Wok shop sells, but I do get a lot of use out of a thin $10 carbon steel cleaver I picked up in Hong Kong. Given the shop's reputation, and the difference in price compared to the Dexter, I'd think those might be very worthwhile to try.

 

[kodreaming]

I think I am going to the store and try it out, see which one fits me better.
If I do end up getting the Dexter, i guess I need a decent chef knife with thin edge right ?

PS:I just bought my first place in SF. Time to burn money on all kinds of xxxWear now.

 

[rangen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kodreaming /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I am going to the store and try it out, see which one fits me better. If I do end up getting the Dexter, i guess I need a decent chef knife with thin edge right ? PS:I just bought my first place in SF. Time to burn money on all kinds of xxxWear now.

Ah, so you're in the area. I'm surprised any of us have any $ left over for knives (and headphones!), after paying for housing and taxes here.

There's no substitute for holding a knife in your hand, that's for sure. As for whether you need a chef's knife, that depends on you. I am so cleaver-oriented that I only rarely reach for a chef's knife. I do use boning and ham-slicing and paring knives; they are irreplaceable for their specialized purposes, but Chef's knives are often pretty thick themselves. I don't know much they can do that a Chinese cleaver can't do better. So if it were me, I'd get one thickish cleaver like the Dexter, and one thin one. But I'm definitely unusual in that regard; most people do want a chef's knife.

Another advantage of going to the shop is that you can ogle the shiny Mac knives (I don't have any, but some people swear by them), and the wonderful heavy, thick, orangeish-handled bone-chopping cleaver that my wife got me for Christmas a few years back. Nothing like it for dealing with recipes that say things like "chop a whole chicken (including the bones) into bite-sized pieces."