[wagnju]

Here is my experience with the Kingsound headphones and the M-10 Amp. I heard them at the Highend in Munich this year and liked them very much . Ordered them and got them in July/August . Had them for 5 days and send them back for a refund as I couldn't listen to them . I first thought something is defective but I was told by the distributor that they and the Amp where OK and they sounded fantastic to him !?? 
I described the sound as music coming out of a metal garbage can .  Maybe its my wooden ears but I now know that I will not part with my Beyerdynamic DT990 and T90 and my old Stax SR84 .
btw I have a pair of great sounding Kingsound King speakers .

 

[wink]

Quote:SIGcollector

 

  It's the same reason that when you compare two sets of speakers in a hifi shop, most people invariable pick the set that sounds best to them only to return them later for something else.

 
The main reason for speakers being returned is that they literally sound differently than they did in the store due to the room acoustics changing. (VERY important aspect with speakers) Room acoustics play next to no part in headphone performance, therefore your analogy makes zero sense. Probably best to just let Spritzer try to explain his theory . . .

That's one reason, but usually the better sounding set wear down your appreciation, just like an over-bright headphone.
You will find literally thousands (yes, thousands) of impressions where someone likes the detail that a headphone delivers, but after a period of time ( 10 minutes to couple of hours) they are unlistenable.
Same goes for overblown and/or wooly bass. Good for a short time but real hifi enthusiasts like something closer to real sound reproduction.
 
Quote:spritzer.

 The bottom line here is how many hours did the people listening to these at an audio show spend with them?  Dozens or even hundreds like those of us that actually bought a set?  Then there is the small issue of what people consider a reference. 

SIGcollector, take note of the above from spritzer. Words of wisdom from someone who has loads of experience.
Just because you can't understand what goes on with high-end sound reproduction and won't take on board valid comment from those who have, doesn't make them wrong, and most of all, doesn't make you right.

 

[SIGcollector]

 
SIGcollector, take note of the above from spritzer. Words of wisdom from someone who has loads of experience talking big but then can't explain himself when questioned.

In fact I did take note of that.
 
Quote:

  Just because you can't understand what goes on with high-end sound reproduction and won't take on board valid comment from those who have, doesn't make them wrong, and most of all, doesn't make you right.

 
Haha, the classic, "I know I'm wrong, he knows I'm wrong, so I'm just going to tell him that he doesn't get it," line. Please, just save yourself the continued embarrassment. It was really never a matter of right or wrong, but a matter of DefCon and Spritzer explaining their comments and theories . . . which they both conclusively failed to establish.
 
The real question for you is why you're part of this little debate at all. I take it you're a "Stax Mafia" groupie??? By the way, if you're going to attempt to insult someone, you should at least brush up on your sentence structure to avoid looking like an uneducated fool yourself. 

 
 
Quote:

  Here is my experience with the Kingsound headphones and the M-10 Amp. I heard them at the Highend in Munich this year and liked them very much . Ordered them and got them in July/August . Had them for 5 days and send them back for a refund as I couldn't listen to them . I first thought something is defective but I was told by the distributor that they and the Amp where OK and they sounded fantastic to him !?? 
I described the sound as music coming out of a metal garbage can .  Maybe its my wooden ears but I now know that I will not part with my Beyerdynamic DT990 and T90 and my old Stax SR84 .
btw I have a pair of great sounding Kingsound King speakers .

 
This is an interesting finding, perhaps something significant was actually changed from the prototype. It should be interesting to see if others that heard both end up feeling the same way.

 

[spritzer]

I'm having some comfort issues with the Audio-Technica pads but the sound is ok, especially off this KGSS I'm testing.  I've been meaning to break open the drivers but amp projects are eating up all of my time. 
 
Quote:

   
As far as testing your hypothesis, why, exactly, would listeners choose the, "less than stellar design" over the "excellent design?" In particular, why would they make that choice at a meet as opposed to at home?
 

 
I just ignored the question as the answer was so bloody obvious.  Same as Wink said, at first it's the impressive gear that grabs our attention.  Some things stand out and we gravitate towards that but in the end those rough spots are very annoying and grating.  There are more subtle variations of this though which shape the music chosen, the volume level etc. over the long term.

 

[SIGcollector]

   
I just ignored the question as the answer was so bloody obvious.  Same as Wink said, at first it's the impressive gear that grabs our attention.  Some things stand out and we gravitate towards that but in the end those rough spots are very annoying and grating.  There are more subtle variations of this though which shape the music chosen, the volume level etc. over the long term.

 
If this is what your entire point boils down to, then Insidious Meme is correct, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I know for a fact that I've gained useful information from meet auditions, and you know for a fact that you haven't. End of story.

 

[spritzer]

Somebody really needs a timeout... 
 
To get this back on topic and stop the delusional people who think we are all part of some evil Stax plot, here are some pics. 
 

 
Earpads used so far, A-T W3000ANV on the phones, then SR-007 and the stock pads  The mounting pieces is simply fixed with glue inside the stock earpads so lift up the lip and it can be removed.  The SR-007 "lip" on the 007 pads is a bit too big so care needs to be taken when mounting them.  The W3000 pads are the opposite, a very tight fit. 
 
In terms of comfort nothing can beat the SR-007 pads, so plush and the depth means you never have the issue of the pinnea hitting the grill protecting the drivers.  They solve most of the echo issues with the stock pads and help with imaging.  The bass is proving to be a trouble spot here as it's just too subdued. 
 
With the W3000 pads the comfort isn't all that great if the earpads are used completely flat.   My ears are too big for the opening so they sit half on- half off.  By stuffing some foam underneath the lower back of the earpads they are more comfortable as now my ear just barely fits.  Lovely leather on these and the sound is quite balanced but the bass is acting up yet again.  It's a bit odd as there is very little bloom for most of the upper bass but hit the lower registers and it just gets mad,. gushing out an uncontrolled mess. 
 
Here is a close up of the W3000 pads...
 

 
My attempt to show the slight rise in the pads in the lower back.  More pads incoming so we'll see how they'll change. 
 
After firing up a new amp today and using the KS-H1 to test it with, it's quite sure I need to open the driver.  My left driver rattles with certain bass frequencies (quite audibly) so that needs to be looked at. 

 

[3X0]

Why W3000 pads instead of L3000 pads? They are about the same price and the latter is a bit thicker. Perhaps not thick enough to make them comfortable but maybe thick enough to make a difference.

 

[spritzer]

They were easier to source, that's it.  L3000 pads would have meant having to go through my contacts in Japan and that adds a couple of weeks to the process. 

 

[spritzer]

I got some Brainwavz HM5 earpads in and while not really fitting on the KS-H1 (need to be stretched a bit) they are the best I've heard so far.  Very balanced and also quite comfy.  Best bit though is that they cost 17$ shipped for the pair... 

 

[wink]

... and the almost make the King Sounds sound good.......

 

[spritzer]

Bias voltage of 570VDC has been confirmed in the M-20 too.

 

[kevin gilmore]

M20 in da haus

You would think that it would be really hard to ruin a very
Simple tube amp.

These guys have managed to design a complete disaster piece.

Phase splitter at least 4db off. No feedback and output tubes
Self biased at maximum gain. Completely unstable.

 

[spritzer]

This one is quite special indeed. The phones work just fine off Stax amps so nobody should buy the KingSound amps IMO.

 

[kevin gilmore]

m20 also has a capacitor direcly on the output of the bias line.
do not use with stax headphones.

 

[AudioCats]

I listened to them at the canjam for about 5 minutes (sorry, not in the market for new headphones and I didn't even know what they are, didn't see any marking on the outside), driven by the KS tube amp (6 small tubes plus one big tube inside). Source was some kind of tablet ---> some kind of DAC. Don't know what interconnect was used.
 
Impressions:
- The looks is quite "unpolished" which caused me to mistaken them as prototypes. Didn't realize that will be the final look. A little to retro for my taste. However the functionalities are all there, and I suppose some people might actually prefer the look.
- Very very light, almost no weight. Very comfy.
- Open back design, no sound insulation.
- The sound is very smooth, no bite whatsoever. I was playing some Diana Kroll song (don't remember which one, but it was from the All for you album).
- Bass is typical electrostatic type, good quality but not much impact. Somehow I got the feeling the diaphragm tension is probably very light, the bass felt a little loose at times. It could have been the amp too, tough.
- Can not comment on detail, air, sound stage etc, as the listen was too brief and the surrounding was a little too loud and I don't know the how good the source is.
 
 
Didn't realize they are already in production, I didn't ask the price at the show. Now it looks like the phones are $625. I am not sure whether I would consider buying a pair if I was in the market for open phones. If the price tag was $400 it would be seriously tempting.
 
About the build quality: these are a little more flimsy comparing to the SR-Lambda I had, but they are really not that super delicate either, I'd say about the same as my ESP950. Since these are super light (probably half the weight of the 950), they might actually have better chance to survive an accidental drop....