[SomeGuyDude]

I'll put it this way: if I had $1000 in my pocket and wanted a set of headphones, the Vali would almost certainly be my pick, though I'd want to audition an Elear first at least.

 

[rudra]

Compared to the HD650 is the Vali an upgrade or a side grade

 

[heliosphann]

  Compared to the HD650 is the Vali an upgrade or a side grade

Grizz has compared them extensively (and closely) with the Focal Elears. The Elears are most definitely a upgrade from the 650, so I'd assume the Vali is as well.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  Grizz has compared them extensively (and closely) with the Focal Elears. The Elears are most definitely a upgrade from the 650, so I'd assume the Vali is as well.

Looked like he thinks the Vali is a HUGE upgrade from the 650.

 

[grizzlybeast]

 

  Grizz has compared them extensively (and closely) with the Focal Elears. The Elears are most definitely a upgrade from the 650, so I'd assume the Vali is as well.

Looked like he thinks the Vali is a HUGE upgrade from the 650.

Maybe not a huge upgrade... but an upgrade none the less. I don't think the Elear is a huge upgrade either but a decent one none the less. 
 
Personal preference is a big thing to consider. For me Vali>Elear>>HD650
 
 
I did a comparison elsewhere and will copy and past it here. 
 
FWIW the 650 is 499 MSRP and even at full MSRP commands its place holding to be taken seriously:
 
These were initial impressions though so this below is edited from where you may have seen it elsewhere. Edits/updates in purple and are from the production unit however from memory. I had the 650 again and for a while but my Vali had not come in. 

---

  Wanted to get some impressions off of my chest about these vs the HD650's I initially called them a super HD650 but while they have some similarities they are a bit different and that may not be appropriate. Still can be called that for some reasons since it is a stronger sounding headphone. I thought it would be okay to post an early comparison here since there are a lot of fans of the HD650 here. I really like the 650 and find it and the HE-4 to represent true values in price to performance.

Pros:

1. Bass is more solid and a little deeper than the Senn even more so with the production unit. 
2. Images have clearer placements and defined positions
3. Soundstage is more spacious slightly though as both are a bit smaller than soundstage heads would like however the production unit may make the differences even more apparent
4. Faster attack
5. Dynamics are a lot more dramatic. It has plenty of attack. This is about as punchy as I have ever heard an open back dynamic.
6. midrange is really natural and full even more so than the HD650.  Production unit sounds less lush than the pre-production and the HD650 has a fuller upper midrange
7. Not etchy or brash sounding
8. Treble is not bright but there still with a smooth sound and a tendency to sound kind of vibrant on certain songs. At first I thought HD650 to have rougher treble.
9. Very euphonic and musical with an even rounder, juicier, tonality due to it having more body
10. Less grainy than the HD650 for sure!

Cons

1. Build is very awkward and requires a resetting of the headphone adjustment almost every time. HD650 is tons more comfortable. Now its set and I do not adjust it. 
2. HD650 has a more neutral midrange and is less colored; also sounds more free and vocals are a little more immediately clear and projected
3. Vocals can have too much reverb at times on the Vali and my modded HD650 can sound more open despite being a lot less spacious. I am thinking the housing is the cause. Edit: the reverb effect has been decreased on the production unit and there is a little less lingering now
4. There is a cavernous quality to the sound a la DX1000 al beit with the full and lush mids means having an amp or dac with extra lower mids will be a bit much.
5. Slower decay of the notes it sounds like... or it can just be the reverb... I dunno yet
6. The 650 despite what people say (actually similar to the Nighthawk)has air in the last octave that the Vali seems to lack while all of them are dark to some (650 is not dark to me but just right). 

Draws and similarities with the above amp (trafomatic head 2 amp / cayin iDAC-6(loaner))

1. possibly equal microdynamics ( or the low level fluctuations in response)
2. both trade off areas of balance with the HD650 so far sounding more drab in the treble and the midrange sounding over-developed on the Vali   The Vali sounds less overdeveloped in the lower mids now because positionally they are a little bit further back on the final production unit. 
3. mid bass presence similar but HD650 slower and a little more, Vali has more sub bass dont know why this was in the draw

Preference from the time with them both goes to the Vali. Actually I really want this headphone. Own it but would love to own the 650 (6th pair it would be) as well. There are things the 650 does that the Vali doesn't and that is air in the last octave as well as still sounding more open (which is different from soundstage size). To choose just one would easily be the Vali though without one question. 
 

 

---

The overall reason that the Vali is an upgrade though is because it is a little faster, more organic with better body and definition, better separated images, less grain (nighthawk has even less) and is a bit more refined. The 650 has better overall tonality than it or the Elear in the midrange on some songs. The 650 takes a lot of money to best in micro details though (even from headphones higher than a grand) and from my amp  with some good tubes on the 300 ohm setting it is freakin awesome! On some gear though this wont be that apparent mind you since the 650 scales like madd. I haven't heard the Vali on anything but the iHA-6 and my amp so I don't know how it scales. 
 
However, my choice for the Vali over either has more to do with its realistically soul-gripping physical sound that seems to capture the true to life feel of music more than the others by quite the margin. I prize this though and have assembled my current set up to give me this. At the meet in Seattle a gentleman switched from his Questyle Dual Mono 800R with his LCD-X and heard my system. His response was that he had the revelation that he prefers a more laid back response... Something less engaging and dynamic. I realize I value response and body  a lot more than the average listener. In that regards it is a huge upgrade. In technicalities it is a less significant upgrade but still an upgrade. In tonality it is a side grade and sometimes a down grade.  The conclusion would be a decent upgrade just not the perfect upgrade. 

 

[Roderick]

 

There is a cavernous quality to the sound a la DX1000 al beit with the full and lush mids means having an amp or dac with extra lower mids will be a bit much.

How would you compare Vali to DX1000? I'd appreciate your input even if you have not compared the two headphones side by side

 

[grizzlybeast]

 

 

There is a cavernous quality to the sound a la DX1000 al beit with the full and lush mids means having an amp or dac with extra lower mids will be a bit much.

How would you compare Vali to DX1000? I'd appreciate your input even if you have not compared the two headphones side by side

The Vali has a more visceral sound to it. The DX1000 has a more fluid and effortless sound with more bass. Thats all I got... I did prefer the DX1000 to the THX00 though. I would buy one again but not pay over 400 for one. I would pay full price for the Vali. 

 

[grizzlybeast]

delete.... not quite..I am eating my words and posting to hastily like a rookie. 

 

[drwlf]

Any ideas where to purchase the Vali in Europe? Via googling, some storefronts have the Vali up for 699€, (which are all out of stock though, is it the old announcement price perhaps?), and some have it for 950-1150€, which is quite a difference, especially as the Elear is going for 999€.

 

[Kennerton Team]

  Any ideas where to purchase the Vali in Europe? Via googling, some storefronts have the Vali up for 699€, (which are all out of stock though, is it the old announcement price perhaps?), and some have it for 950-1150€, which is quite a difference, especially as the Elear is going for 999€.

If you do not have an official distributor in your country, you can buy from our web-site.
699€ was an announced price. Those stores do not have in stock, and will not be able to sell.

 

[drwlf]

 
If you do not have an official distributor in your country, you can buy from our web-site.
699€ was an announced price. Those stores do not have in stock, and will not be able to sell.

 
Thanks for the reply.
No official distributors in Finland, I'm afraid.
Where do you guys ship from, as the link towards delivery information at kennerton.com doesn't lead anywhere? If you're located outside Europe, the customs fees and VAT increase the price quite heavily on the customers end.

 

[Kennerton Team]

   
Thanks for the reply.
No official distributors in Finland, I'm afraid.
Where do you guys ship from, as the link towards delivery information at kennerton.com doesn't lead anywhere? If you're located outside Europe, the customs fees and VAT increase the price quite heavily on the customers end.

We are regularly visiting Finland and are planning to open workshop there. For your case, we can send it from Lappeenranta

 

[drwlf]

 
We are regularly visiting Finland and are planning to open workshop there. For your case, we can send it from Lappeenranta

 
Oh my god, this certainly piqued my interest even further, even to the point of beginning to consider an Odin purchase in the future.
I was already wondering about visa-free cruises/trains to St. Petersburg, which are quite cheap from Helsinki, as if there's a store there selling Kennerton headphones, the discount in price would already be worth the trip. I guess I'm a sucker for good deals and/or value?
 
This kind of awesome customer service, going out of the way for the customer, should seriously be advertised to the Finnish hi-fi market (I could make a post about this in Hifiharrastajat ry. forums, the association of Finnish hi-fi enthusiasts if you wish, if the shipping suggestion would be a preferable method for you guys), and additionally, stated in your website - if you have a warehouse/shipping location within the EU, to encourage the EU sales even further!
 
Too bad you don't seem to be around Helsinkis HifiExpo this weekend!

 

[Vigrith]

Quote:
 

We are regularly visiting Finland and are planning to open workshop there. For your case, we can send it from Lappeenranta

 
That's great, my spouse is Finnish and though we do not live there we visit her family in Turku regularly - would be fantastic to be able to demo the Odin and potential future products once you open up shop somewhere in the country.
 
 

  if you have a warehouse/shipping location within the EU, to encourage the EU sales even further!

 
I think all of Kennerton's sales in Europe include VAT already when purchased through their website; I've bought 1 pair of each of their ear pads (the brown are the best by the way) and a couple power cables, all of which were far above VAT threshold in Portugal (25€~) and I never got taxed, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't either in Finland or anywhere else in Europe. Then again, French stores for example were selling the Vali for like 1150€ or something to begin with which I found extremely odd seeing as ordering it directly from Kennerton's website would mean it costs shy of 900; maybe it's different in other countries and I just got lucky, but that'd make little sense.

 

[Kennerton Team]

  I was already wondering about visa-free cruises/trains to St. Petersburg, which are quite cheap from Helsinki, as if there's a store there selling Kennerton headphones, the discount in price would already be worth the trip. I guess I'm a sucker for good deals and/or value?
 
This kind of awesome customer service, going out of the way for the customer, should seriously be advertised to the Finnish hi-fi market (I could make a post about this in Hifiharrastajat ry. forums, the association of Finnish hi-fi enthusiasts if you wish, if the shipping suggestion would be a preferable method for you guys), and additionally, stated in your website - if you have a warehouse/shipping location within the EU, to encourage the EU sales even further!
 
Too bad you don't seem to be around Helsinkis HifiExpo this weekend!

Haha, yea, If you arrive to us in Saint-Petersburg, it can be even cheaper
Sure, we appreciate any info sharing with local communities I do not have clear answer when exactly we will open that workshop, but it is in progress.
 
We did not know about Helsinki HifiExpo, we might actually attend it next time Thanks for that info!

   
That's great, my spouse is Finnish and though we do not live there we visit her family in Turku regularly - would be fantastic to be able to demo the Odin and potential future products once you open up shop somewhere in the country.
 
 
 
I think all of Kennerton's sales in Europe include VAT already when purchased through their website; I've bought 1 pair of each of their ear pads (the brown are the best by the way) and a couple power cables, all of which were far above VAT threshold in Portugal (25€~) and I never got taxed, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't either in Finland or anywhere else in Europe. Then again, French stores for example were selling the Vali for like 1150€ or something to begin with which I found extremely odd seeing as ordering it directly from Kennerton's website would mean it costs shy of 900; maybe it's different in other countries and I just got lucky, but that'd make little sense.

Actually no, prices do not include VAT. That's why our distributors in Europe have higher listed price.