[MixingWizard]

Howdy all!
 
This is my first post here, but I've been lurking around here for years (I've lost count of how many times I've benefited from the valuable information up here). This is not a recommendation thread, as I already have a pretty good idea of what I want, and I only really trust my own ears, but I could do with some insight about a couple of things.
 
I'm in the market for a new pair of closed back cans for work (I'm a live sound engineer). My old cans were a pair of Sony MDR-V6s which I LOVED, purely for their indestructible build, but while I really enjoyed the sound for certain genres, the inaccuracy of the bottom end was useless for my purposes. Basically I need FLAT, ACCURATE and DISTORTION/HARMONIC FREE headphones with decent isolation. By the looks of it the Denon D2000 would be ideal, but while I could probably find some used, I don't like the idea of not being able to easily replace drivers.  
I'm planning on heading down to my local gear shop to test out a few sets. Namely the HD25s (I already know I don't really dig the sound/comfort though), the Shure SRH840 and the AT M50s (from the measurements they look a little "hi-fi"). Unfortunately they don't have any of my top choices, the AKG K550, Ultrasone HFI 680 and the GermanMaestro GMP 8.35 D, so I'll probably buy one of those and compare them to the ones in the shop, starting with the AKGs (because they're cheap, and measurement wise they look the closest to what I need). 
 
Anyway, I really didn't need to tell you all that

 all I really need to know is what's the build quality like on the AKGs? They look kinda brittle, and in my job they're likely to get dropped, sat on and generally thrown around...
 
Sorry for waffling on,
The Mixing WIzard 

 
P.S. What in hells name is this?! 

 

 

[SDBiotek]

Welcome to Head-Fi! I'd hardly call the K550 brittle, but at the same time they are not built as ruggedly as the HD25s or a Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro, for example. The K550 probably wouldn't hold up long term if they are thrown around too much. I have brought mine on several trips, and they look as good as new, but I tend to be pretty careful about how I handle and store the headphones. If you need headphones with a prominent bass response, the K550 might not be for you. The bass is very good, tight, and extends deep, but it is a leaner sound.
 
The old Denon D2000 is a very nice headphone, with strong midbass, and maybe less deep bass compared with the K550. The Denons are solidly built, but I'd have the same concern about them getting thrown around too much.
 
The Sennheiser HD 380 may be another option for you. I don't have experience with any of the other headphones you mentioned.
 
I'm not sure where the dog-beating emoticon originated, but on Head-Fi I think it was mostly used when folks referred to the "veiled" sound of the Sennheiser HD 600 or 650, since it comes up a lot here.

 

[SSandDigital]

I bought the K550 for durability, they are really well built.  I like the headband adjuster is metal, so is the hinge.  I agree though if you need something like HD25, these probably are not it.  They are pretty headphones, so you probably don't want to scratch it up, luckily at least mine it's a matte finish.
 
As for low end, I don't think it's for you.  K550 low end is recessed.  Both my open air headphones have more bass than the K550.  It's certainly there, and if you listen carefully sub-bass as well.  But it's not there in quantity at all.  It's their biggest flaw for me.  Worst bass of any headphone I've heard over $200.
 
They isolate decently for traveling.  But for your professional work?  Probably inadaquate.  The clamping force is puny.  And getting a good fit is a chore.  You can't just throw them on quick and get a good seal.  It's finicky headphone.  For the price I paid for them, K551 are fine, recabled so it's a white K550.  But for sound, seal, fit, etc, if you plan to pay more than $200, I would suspect there are much better headphones.
 
Pads are super soft, and almost feel like memory foam.  But they are shallow.  So if you don't like your ears touching the housing, these are not for you.  Your ears will touch the housing.  It's 2nd biggest flaw.
 
For me:  
 
Treble 6/10 (Its a little strident, shrill).
Mids 8/10 excellent
Bass 5/10  good extension, low volume, pitiful quantity and impact
 
Build quality 8/10.  Other than the best built like HD25, these are great
Isolation 7/10  good enough for portable use
Clamping 5/10 Poor clamping force.

 

[MixingWizard]

Thanks for the replies guys! 
 
I'm really not bothered about bass quantity as such (in fact "bass-head" headphones are the last thing I want). Generally "flat" headphones do have a recessed bottom end, I just need accurate. Poor clamping would be problem for me though, I generally EQ a system using the cans as a reference (with some guesswork - if I know the cans have a 10k spike I will adjust for this) and often roughly soundcheck bands during changeover times at festivals. I'm constantly throwing them on/off so I need a tight fit quickly. 
 
I was looking at the 380s but they suffer from some harmonic distortion in the bottom end - they sound great for generally listening but I wouldn't say they're accurate. When I test headphones I tend to just blast a sine sweep through them at high volume and see how they handle it The senny's definitely fuzz up in the bottom end. 
 
Looks like it's between the Shures and the Ultrasones! I've heard good things about the ultrasones but again, they look a tad flimsy (and they're pretty expensive). 
 
Edit: Saying that, there looks like a pretty sweet mod for the K550 to improve clamping over on the K550 appreciation thread. 

 

[SSandDigital]

The problem with the bass on the K550 is that the treble is ridiculously prominent that the bass sounds like tap tap tap.  Normally for me on a bass, that treble/upper mids give bass that impactful sound, with K550 it's like cardboard tap tap.  I've done the pad stuffing etc and it improves it a little.  Bass can be heard, but the tap on top is still too prominent. It's alright with acoustic, since there is that impact sound, but on EDM, eh... it's a bit much.  Consequently for music, acoustic, rock sound much better on K550 than electronic for me.
 
Listening to sound tests, I can hear sub-bass around 25 hz.  K550 does well with a sine sweep of 20hz to 20khz.  Definitely up towards 20khz, ear splitting.  So just letting you know the K550 is definitely capable of the full range of bass, it's just not much volume, it gets veiled under the enormous amount of treble.
 
I have no idea about Ultrasones and likely never will, their headphones don't interest me at all, at least Ultrasone does publich white papers to back up their claims unlike the other bazillion moron flavor of the month headphone that pops up nearly everyday on head-fi.  So I respect Ultrasone in that regard, legitimate.
 
Shure, only heard the SRH840. Their treble and mids are more prominent than bass also.  Definitely a more neutral and flat sound to me than K550.  But then K550 wasn't for sound engineering purposes.  I liked the SRH840, but the adjuster on them are plastic and mine snapped there.  Meh... I think the K550 are better built, but that's me.  I prefer the K550 for that airy sound, but for overall neutral sound, SRH840 wins.  Shure also gets a thumbs up from me, since it's a company well respected among professionals, not meaningless marketing like from the supposed hi-fi boutique companies.

 

[e6600]

hey,
for me the best part of the k550s is the bass, and worst part was the treble.  i cant listen to these headphones without eq or some felt to bring down the spikes in the highs.  they dont have siblance, but they fatigue and sound very plasticy stock
the bass is honestly just perfect (not too much not to little quantity), they extend low and have really good subbass, not so much impact though.  
midrange is kinda weird sometimes, where sound tends to get peaky all of a sudden.  listening at lower volumes you probably wont notice it as much, but at higher volumes its very uncomfortable.  fortunately you can fix some of the issue with sound deadening material in the cups (google k550 mods)
 
and the build quality is really good.  ive dropped em and yanked on the cord tons of times, and my cats have bitten them and they still look/work great
also there seem to be some quality control issues with the k550s

 

[Lorspeaker]

I dun hv issues with fit on the k550, fat face I guess
Once I get a good seal the bass is there,
only those weird spikes in the vocals bothered me.
The left driver went dead after 2months,
got a new replacement n sold it immediately.
I won't say the k550 is the flat ruler u want.

D2000 is v shaped, poor isolation, fragile


Good bets are agk271mk2, Beyer dt150,
Shure440, Yamaha mt220, kRK kns8400.

 

[vaibhavp]

Anyway, I really didn't need to tell you all that

 all I really need to know is what's the build quality like on the AKGs? They look kinda brittle, and in my job they're likely to get dropped, sat on and generally thrown around...

 
 
wouldn't recommend akg then. get shure or m50. they are much more robust.
 
akg have some nice materials like metal and good earpads etc but are rather fragile. other 2 are mainly plastic but built like tank and are designed to take abuse.

 

[SSandDigital]

I'd get the Sennheiser HD25...  They were made for sound engineers.  And you could probably use them as a hammer and still be in good condition.

 

[rhythm is life]

The K550 is very roomy but because the cups are so large the bass response is highly seal-dependent. So for some, K550 has plenty of bass while others will say it's weak down low. With a good seal, the response is fairly balanced. The K545 that AKG introduced recently is much easier to get a seal with, and the 8-9 kHz treble spike is somewhat reduced. For durability though I would go with something designed as a studio monitor like the M50. The new M50x has a slightly smoother treble than the M50, although the bass is somewhat above neutral and can intrude on the midrange.

 

[Roy Munson]

Anyway, I really didn't need to tell you all that

 all I really need to know is what's the build quality like on the AKGs?

OP - From my experience the K550 is built really well. I've owned mine for a couple of years and have used it on several trips, flights, commuting, office, home use, etc. They've been dropped several times. I have never once questioned the build quality and they are still in great shape. I have never had an issue with seal and even stretched the headband out a slight amount as I felt the clamp was just a bit too much for me out of the box. The cups swivel which I've found works well for getting the ideal fit on the head but I've never experienced any seal issues.
 
-Roy

 

[MixingWizard]

Thanks for all the info guys! I might start a new thread as this has moved away from "k550" to a search for the best sub £200 sound engineer headphones. Can I change the thread name?
 
So to update. I went to my local audio supplier and tried a bunch of stuff. My testing method was to blast a fairly loud full sine sweep through them to listen out for harmonic distortion in the bottom end and general smoothness through the frequency range (particularly sharp peaks - if there's a peak I want it to be a gentle increase). I then played a couple of tracks (a few of my usual sound check tunes - 74/75 by The Connells, Billy Jean, Sledgehammer, Toxic by Britney Spears and for sub frequencies Tomorrow Comes Today by the Gorrilaz and Eyesdown by Bonobo). 
 
HD25s - I think the reason so many engineers use these is because they're an industry standard. Blasting a sine sweep through them reveals a very wavering frequency response, but the isolation was good. 
AKG 701s - I tried these out of curiosity and fell in love with them, unfortunately they're closed backed so no deal.
Beyer DT770 Pro 80ohm - sounded a tad weak/scooped with music (maybe they need amping?) and had a slightly wavering frequency response with the sweep.
AT M50x - nice cans but way too hyped for me.
Sennheiser 380/280 - both just didn't do it for me, wonky sweep and I just didn't find them very revealing. 
Shure SRH840 - these were the best of the bunch, completely smooth frequency sweep right up to the upper mids, with a slight increase through the bottom end (which doesn't really match the measurements as they show a slight hype in the bottom end). They have the usual top end wobble that all headphones seem to have, and I can definitely hear a slight 4.5k peak and an 10k peak. 
 
Anyway, I went home to mull it over and ended up grabbing a pair of the Shures on Ebay  (felt kinda cheeky doing that, but they were nearly new and went for £70). In many ways I love them, the soundstage is a little flat, but with a small EQ adjustment in the 5k and 10k region they're awesome. They're also incredibly revealing. Many people have mentioned that they don't need amping, but I can barely listen to them with an onboard soundcard or phone - I can hear the distortion these devices add so clearly. They're much better through my dedicated soundcard (Saffire Pro 40) 

 
The only problem I have with them is a slight imbalance between the left and right. Vocals sound like they're about an inch to the right in my head. For a minute I thought I'd lost some hearing in one side but the problem persists if you swap them round. Is this a common problem with headphones in general or is it just a side effect of buying from ebay?

 

[MixingWizard]

They broke... and looking at the amount of plastic connecting them I'm really not surprised.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 

P.S. What in hells name is this?! 

 
 

 
Quote:

 
I'm not sure where the dog-beating emoticon originated, but on Head-Fi I think it was mostly used when folks referred to the "veiled" sound of the Sennheiser HD 600 or 650, since it comes up a lot here.

 
That's not a dog - view the page on a larger screen and look at the ends of the feet. It has black hooves, not paws and claws; also look at the hair of the tail. You can see the equine snout just under the "veiled" emoticon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse

 

[BlackMetalAdict]

Just few observation after almost year of using K550 on Emu 0202 + Dot Little MKIII (various lamps, gain x10) and Note3 as portable source.
 
They require quite a lot of burn-in, (after 100h+ they sound fine, but it will take much longer to get they optimum performance).
 
If your bass is very thin, you can have problem with the white tape (visible after detaching ear cups) that supposed to block air coming out of cans. Mine was not glued properly and after re-gluing bass become great :]
 
Clamp strength can be changed easily by bending the headband (just us moderate force and keep them symmetrical bended).
 
I stopped using my K271 MKII at all. I rarely use HD650 only for movies and some slow music.
 
I love listing to 192kHz metal vinyl rips on this cans :] K271 sounds like 10$ cans in compare where HD650 sounds mudded and distorted.
 
I couldn't say a bad world about they build quality. They had unintended contact with floor way too many times :/ and no problem at all. I would say they are build way better than k271 (which aren't in great shape after 5years of using )