just picked up a record player, need some help

[pne]

I was over at my grandpa's house for christmas and spotted this old record player he had, hasn't been used in 10 years or so. I asked him about it and he said take it home. Now I have a pretty big collection of old records and a player I really don't know how to use. I hooked it up to my sound system but it is extremely quiet, even with the volume set to max on my amplifier. I've managed to figure out a few of the controls on the player but I am clueless as to how to increase the volume. Perhaps it needs a new needle/catridge thingy? I'm not sure, can anyone help?

 

[Jam_Master_J]

Hey,
I know very little about vinyl in general. However, one thing I do know is that record players output a very quiet signal. You either need to use a "phono" input on your amp or get a pre-amp to bring the volume up.

-JMJ

 

[soundboy]

What's the make and model of the turntable?

To bring its low output up to line level, turntables need a phono pre-amp. Phono pre-amps can be found on receivers and integrated amps, but usually are absent on today's components. The phono inputs are specifically for turntable and nothing else. Dependent on the cartridge used on the turntable, whether it's a moving-magnet or moving-coil design, further amplification may be needed. An outboard phono pre-amp can be purchased at places like Radio Shack. And prices for such phono pre-amp can go from $20.00 - infinity.

 

[pne]

I believe the brand is Noresco, no idea on the model number. It says DUAL on top of the cover. The needle says shure hi-track on it. There is adjustments for 33/45/78 rpm and a toggle for 7/10/12 inch discs.

 

[soundboy]

What are you using as an amp/receiver?

If it has a phono-specific input, you can plug your turntable into that particular input. If no, then you have to get a phono pre-amp.

Wow! 78rpm? There're that many of those available.

 

[pne]

found the phono jacks on the amp, it works excellent now. I still am not getting the wonderful sound I am hearing about though. The sound is very reserved and not engaging at all. It sounds distanced, and I am not hearing any low bass hits or sharper cymbal snaps either. Is there a "setup for dummies" document I can read for tt's?

 

[aeriyn]

Maybe the turntable's just not very good? Or perhaps the phono preamp in your amp doesn't work very well.

 

[bln]

Don't expect "the wonderful sound of vinyl" from something you pulled out of the dust heap. Vinyl requires a somewhat higher entry point than CD in order to get decent sound; it's not like picking up a $20 WalMart discman. By "entry-level" I don't mean a Rega or a Music Hall, which are several hundred dollars. However, you need to make sure your table is working properly and probably purchase a new cartridge so you know the needle is fresh. That and learn (and purchase the tools) to set tracking force, anti-skating, etc. Oh, and by your description, it doesn't sound like you have a phono stage right now. That, obviously, is mandatory.

 

[pne]

http://www.compassnet.com/concept/tables/1218.htm

a little digging and I've discovered it is a DUAL 1218, What do you think? It's better than what i expected, (190USD for nothing). Just by going on some basic stuff i've googled, I set the arm so it balanced level, and then set the tracking force to 1.5 (not sure the spec'd values). It sounds a fair bit better, but still not as engaging as I'd like it. If I turn it up I can hear the hiss/hum.

As for the phono stage, I have it plugged into my amplifier's phono jacks, which I understand are made for turn tables only. Would a seperate dedicated phono stage improve the sound? How much would you guys estimate it would cost to get this thing sounding good? I would get a new cartidge and...____?

thanks for your help, I'm really excited to finally get into vinyl as you can probably tell.

 

[soundboy]

Quote:

How much would you guys estimate it would cost to get this thing sounding good? I would get a new cartidge and...____?

"Good" is such a subjective word.

I don't know whether it's still available, but the $30.00 Radio Shack phono pre-amp has been mentioned on the 'net as very good. Same with the NAD PP-1 or PP-2, and the Parasound Z-series phono pre-amp. But these will cost you about $100.00 used.

Is that a ground wire on the turntable that you can connect to a grounding post on your receiver/amp?

 

[bhd812]

get a good cartridge and a good phono stage and should should be to a good start.

Maybe some more vinyls pros can go in on this

 

[pne]

there does not appear to be a ground wire/post and the power cable is only a 2 prong too. Good is indeed subjective

I am listening through a simple cmoy/grado 125 setup, no fancy interconnects or anything. I basically want to reach and maybe surpass? cd quality, which I feel I am not getting at the moment.

would you recommend I still get a phono pre-amp as an upgrade? Or would a new cartridge/stylus make a better difference? I ejected the cartridge and it is a shure M91E. Can you suggest a suitable upgrade/replacement?

 

[Nak Man]

- Dual doesn't use separate ground, iirc it's 'embedded' on right channel ground. However, at normal listening volume, any hiss or hum shouldn't be very noticable - if it is relatively loud then you may need to check the wiring. One of Dual's weakness is the headshell connector, contact spray will help a bit there.

- Separate phono preamps are mostly sold to be used with current breed of amps that only have line level inputs, although they do present slight improvement over old designs. I believe this would be an overkill for a 1218, just use the built in phono preamp.

- Shure M9x is quite decent, but maybe about time for a replacement. Audio technica AT-110 or 120 should give good value for their performance. If this Shure is a model with brush attached then you may need to put higher tracking force, about 1.75gr with brush engaged. It's better to err on the heavy side rather than having not enough stylus pressure.

- Awfully sorry to say that it might be difficult to get good sound from 1218 as (again iirc) it uses rubber idler to turn the platter which now may harden with time and affect the speed stability. Please check if it's belt driven or not. Ime going from idler Duals to belt driven ancient thorens td 165 (which can also be had for almost free thesedays) was a revelation.

So in order to bring the best out of your table I believe a good cartridge will be the optimum solution. Don't forget to clean your stylus and records as wonderful sound of vinyl won't happen with dirty needle dirty LPs and old recordings anyway. Once you decided to get more into vinyl, take a look at various old thorens on ebay, the simple models such as 14x/16x are almost indestructible even by plugging into wrong voltage.

 

[lini]

Yup, that's one of the idler wheel driven thingies. Should do the job to get a taste of vinyl, but it's nothing I'd recommend to spend more than US$ 50 on to revive...

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[pne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man - Dual doesn't use separate ground, iirc it's 'embedded' on right channel ground. However, at normal listening volume, any hiss or hum shouldn't be very noticable - if it is relatively loud then you may need to check the wiring. One of Dual's weakness is the headshell connector, contact spray will help a bit there. - Separate phono preamps are mostly sold to be used with current breed of amps that only have line level inputs, although they do present slight improvement over old designs. I believe this would be an overkill for a 1218, just use the built in phono preamp. - Shure M9x is quite decent, but maybe about time for a replacement. Audio technica AT-110 or 120 should give good value for their performance. If this Shure is a model with brush attached then you may need to put higher tracking force, about 1.75gr with brush engaged. It's better to err on the heavy side rather than having not enough stylus pressure. - Awfully sorry to say that it might be difficult to get good sound from 1218 as (again iirc) it uses rubber idler to turn the platter which now may harden with time and affect the speed stability. Please check if it's belt driven or not. Ime going from idler Duals to belt driven ancient thorens td 165 (which can also be had for almost free thesedays) was a revelation. So in order to bring the best out of your table I believe a good cartridge will be the optimum solution. Don't forget to clean your stylus and records as wonderful sound of vinyl won't happen with dirty needle dirty LPs and old recordings anyway. Once you decided to get more into vinyl, take a look at various old thorens on ebay, the simple models such as 14x/16x are almost indestructible even by plugging into wrong voltage.

I looked underneath this thing and cannot figure it out. Cant even seem to find a motor under there, but there is a large plastic gear underneath the center axle. (sorry I am unfamiliar with tt terms) the record does rest on a rubber platform. Can you describe the headshell connector? Not sure which part this is. The hiss and hum is very annoying and present in all the records I've tried. (cleaned the stylus and records) So I think it may be a grounding issue or I may need a new cartridge after all. Would ebay be a good place to shop for cartridges?