JDS Labs Element
Jul 21, 2015 at 1:36 PM Post #211 of 636
I've never used the O2, but the Element does sound very similar to the HeadAmp pico Power + ODAC combo that I used to have. Almost identical, really, which is not particularly surprising. If I had to choose between the two based purely on sonic performance, I'd give a minute edge to the Element. The Element is somewhat better at handling more challenging loads, too.
 
Bear in mind, this assessment is coming from memory. Take it with a healthy grain of salt. 
wink.gif

 
Jul 23, 2015 at 1:46 PM Post #212 of 636
I don't own the element so I don't have any impressions or experience with it, however i've been emailing JDSLabs recently about measurements and power output and with their permission here is the frequency response of the element and interpolated power output (since everything besides 32,150, and 600 have not been exactly listed).
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1APtUkCCBp6H73wifjLcSfxucFxbCaISVVdQxmTO_69s/pubchart?oid=529655900&format=interactive
 
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOTqB5IYho5CZjlo4laT3LIeXFN5HCLD1sQRPHR
 
Jul 24, 2015 at 12:22 AM Post #213 of 636
For those interested in using the Element with HD650s, I digitized the plot and got a power output of 345W at 300 Ohms, so a little higher than the magni 2 uber. I'm really still on the fence when deciding on the Element vs. the Schiit stack. I love the design of the Element and it's certainly plenty powerful, but the M2U combo is more versatile. At the moment this is just for use at my desk, so perhaps simplicity should dictate my decision. If anyone has had a chance to use the Element with the HD650s, can you comment on the sound? 
 
Jul 25, 2015 at 10:58 AM Post #214 of 636
  For those interested in using the Element with HD650s, I digitized the plot and got a power output of 345W at 300 Ohms, so a little higher than the magni 2 uber. I'm really still on the fence when deciding on the Element vs. the Schiit stack. I love the design of the Element and it's certainly plenty powerful, but the M2U combo is more versatile. At the moment this is just for use at my desk, so perhaps simplicity should dictate my decision. If anyone has had a chance to use the Element with the HD650s, can you comment on the sound? 

I agree in terms of versatility, using the Modi 2 Uber you have a lot of digital input options at a very low cost. But I suspect the thinking was along the lines of the Woo Audio WA7 and Meridian Prime, which I've read are both simply good headphone amplifiers with a USB input thrown in for convenience. How does it sound to you - the Schiit versus the JDS Labs?
 
I promised someone a while back to compare plain Schiit Magni 2 to my JDS Labs (using my HD650), but it will need to wait a week or two due to ... well, personal things. I just opened the box - initial listening to the JDS Labs seems like I'm hearing something very special.
 
Jul 26, 2015 at 12:58 PM Post #216 of 636
I have Philips Fidelio x2, I need to buy AMP + DAC
 
What is the best amp + dac for Philips Fidelio x2  to get out best sound ?
 
Some people told my (Element by JDS Laps) and some people told me (Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber)
 
Please I need help,, can't decide
 
Excuse my English... Thank u
 
Jul 27, 2015 at 4:19 PM Post #217 of 636
  I have Philips Fidelio x2, I need to buy AMP + DAC
 
What is the best amp + dac for Philips Fidelio x2  to get out best sound ?
 
Some people told my (Element by JDS Laps) and some people told me (Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber)
 
Please I need help,, can't decide
 
Excuse my English... Thank u

PLZ any help ?!!!
 
Jul 27, 2015 at 4:59 PM Post #218 of 636
  I have Philips Fidelio x2, I need to buy AMP + DAC
 
What is the best amp + dac for Philips Fidelio x2  to get out best sound ?
 
Some people told my (Element by JDS Laps) and some people told me (Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber)
 
Please I need help,, can't decide
 
Excuse my English... Thank u


I think the headphone you are considering is a balanced headphone. You will get good sound from either the Uber versions of the Magni 2 and Modi 2, or the JDS Labs Element. Without listening to them, have you considered other features? The JDS Labs Element has a single power connection and resides in a single box, while the Schiit will require two power bricks, two boxes, and RCA cables to connect. What is the desktop area where you plan to put the DAC/AMP and how many connections will fit your existing electrical outlets? The Magni and Modi provide more digital connections, and flexibility in future to be used just as a DAC, or as a pre-amp to an external amplifier. Will you be using these features?
 
Aug 1, 2015 at 8:53 PM Post #219 of 636
As promised using JDS Labs in comparison to Schiit Magni 2 to drive the Sennheiser HD650,
 
The first order of business was to pick a DAC. Though this is not a DAC comparison, I wanted to pick something of enough quality to allow for proper comparison of the AMP options. Yet I also wanted to pick something around the same price/quality of the JDS Labs and Schiit products. Instead of picking Meridian Director and Schiit Bifrost, I choose to compare the internal JDS Labs DAC against the line output from the Meridian Explorer2 and HRT microStreamer, in hope that one of the two would provide a comparable sound for later use as input to the Schiit AMP options.
 
I’m admittedly a little lazy when it comes to music selection. I usually just pick whatever suits my mood. Today the selections are:
 
  1. Norah Jones - Don’t Know Why and Seven Years from Come Away with Me (HDtracks FLAC, 24/192)
  2. Cassandra Wilson - Another Country (HDtracks FLAC sampler 2014, 24/96)
  3. Lorde - Ribs and Buzzcut Season (HDtracks FLAC, 24/48)
  4. Fleetwood Mac - Dreams from Rumors (Pono FLAC, 24/96)
  5. Dave Matthews Band - Proudest Monkey from Crash (Pono FLAC, 16/44.1)
  6. Eagles - Hotel California (Pono FLAC, 24/192)
 
Notes follow, which I may or may not include in final summary. I’m accustomed to hearing grain during playback of the Norah Jones album - straight through the JDS Labs internal DAC, it was quite a smooth sound. There’s still plenty of breath and air around each of her phrases. She just has a style, like it or not, of closeness with the microphone. Hard to believe I suffered with these headphones for 10 years, not liking them until I got my first USB dongle last year - they’re very nice in this setup. The Cassandra Wilson song can suffer from a poor presentation, due to acoustic guitar and lots of cymbal percussion adding to a lot of high frequency energy. This is not the best presentation I’ve heard, very near to the edge of my personal comfort of high frequency detail. What can I say about Lorde - I am simply waiting to hear her second album. Uh-oh, raining outside, which I hope will not create too much background noise. Rumors by Fleetwood Mac is also perfect sound - spacious, detailed, layered with the bazillion sounds that the band created in their studio masterpiece. The Dave Matthews Band song starts quietly and simply, but then crescendos into a louder and more energetic piece by song’s peak. Again it’s definitely not the best presentation of this song I’ve heard. Some of the layers of sounds are starting to get lost behind the foreground instrument sounds. There is a thumping beat to the Eagles song, which I do not recall. I cannot see this getting better with a different DAC or AMP, but I hope it does. Again, I’ve heard it sound better during playback on other devices and headphones.
 
I switched over to a “naked” Meridian Explorer2. I call it “naked” because I usually use some kind of USB power buffer between it and my laptop USB. I feel as if there is just the slightest bit of tasty grain. It’s not a bad sound at all. It’s just Norah Jones sound up-close-and-personal with a microphone, a tasty sound. Me being a piano player, I also appreciate the crisp piano sounds that sparkle in the pause between each musical phrase. On the second song, there’s a depth to the guitars that I do not recall from the JDS Labs internal DAC. There’s a base note at the beginning of the Cassandra Wilson song, which I do not recall from the internal DAC. No issues at all with the percussion as a play through the Meridian DAC. It is so much more relaxed that I wonder if things are missing. But each time an instrument is allowed a solo moment, it immediately appears in the foreground, and quickly settles back into the stage depth of the main band, when the solo moment concludes. I’m really liking the bass player during this go around. Checking Wikipedia to be sure Lorde is working on her second album. If I weren’t doing a review, this is the point where I’d start to turn up the volume. Second song from Lorde has a piano note - so nice. The separation between the instruments, which was there during the first playback of Fleetwood Mac, is just more during playback through the Meridian DAC. For example, when he hits the cymbal and lets it ring, the decay is audible longer. The slow entrance of each instrument of the Dave Matthews Band is even more delayed. The sound of Dave’s voice, first in the chorus of other band member voices, next in the foreground, the change between the two placements is more dramatic. Eagles! Yes - the bass and drum, while playing at the same time are not the same sound. That was really annoying during the first playback with the JDS Labs internal DAC.
 
Let’s start with the dynamics to describe the HRT microStreamer. Each time Norah Jones makes a phrase, there’s a zing of sound, kind of like a race car revving its engine. It make take me a song or two to adjust to the sound of the HRT microStreamer. However on the second song from Norah Jones, I can hear that she’s changed her cadance. She’s using a more subtle, gradual introduction to each phrase, always soft, and more delicate - artfully matching her sound to the new lyrics. I could say I noted an artist choice, which I did not notice before. Listening to the song by Cassandra Wilson, I would definitely need to conclude there is less delta between foreground and background. It is still not harsh like the original JDS Labs internal DAC. But there was a guitar solo that did not jump as far into the foreground, or afterward sink as far back into the band sound. Sounds go from soft to loud, but they don’t move as much front to back on the soundstage. Don’t read this as a dislike for the HRT microStreamer sound, which I definitely like. I just find the soundstage works for some headphones, and not for others. Then the sound cut out, which it’s been doing on the Lorde track of lately. Grrr… So I skipped forward to Rumors track by Fleetwood Mac. The sound is nice, but the instruments are clearly on top of one another again. So I skipped to the Dave Matthews Band, which had the same stage depth issue. I can describe the issue even further with the Eagles song. Because there are three people playing guitar at the same time, it is critical the listener is able to hear separation. Otherwise the sound becomes a confusing mess of a note on the left, a note on the right, and another note in the middle. Who’s playing what? Who knows?
 
Both USB DAC sound better to me than the DAC in the JDS Labs. But the Meridian Explorer I will use when I compare the JDS Labs to each Schiit AMP due to the increased soundstage when listening to my HD650 headphones.
 
Aug 1, 2015 at 8:55 PM Post #220 of 636
I was starting to tire of the same songs. I also wanted to pick songs that were shorter. And I wanted to pick fewer songs:
 
  1. Norah Jones - One Flight Down from Come Away With Me (HDtracks FLAC, 24/192)
  2. Lorde - White Teeth Teens (HDtracks FLAC, 24/48)
  3. Fleetwood Mac - You Make Loving Fun from Rumors (Pono FLAC, 24/96)
  4. Sting - Saint Agnes and the Burning Train from Soul Cages (AIFF, 16/44.1)
  5. Tori Amos - Baker Baker from Tales of a Librarian (AIFF, 16/44.1)
 
While listening to the JDS Labs, if anything strikes me, I will note it here. Otherwise I’ll start taking notes when I switch to the Schiit products. All I can say is if the sound doesn’t improve, that’s plenty okay with me. This is the best presentation of each of these songs I have ever heard in my entire existence on this planet - just amazing! I’ve heard the Sting song many times before, so it is simply matching best prior experience. I’ve no idea how Tori Amos can compress so much emotion into 3 minutes of music - wow!
 
I figured I would go through in order from cheapest to most expensive. Magni 2 is up. I want to say it’s a little more straightforward, less warm - but I’m not clear how to identify this. The volume knob is certainly more difficult to adjust smoothly. There seems to be more energy focus on higher frequency sounds. As I already mentioned in my previous comparison between the DAC options, I am not a fan of additional high frequency energy. But to my ears, a side effect of vibrant highs is I actually lose soundstage. With Fleetwood Mac, I heard more of the thumping sound where bass and drum sound were lost against each other, cymbals and guitars start to mesh, and group chorus is joined as one. I heard Baker Baker too many times to listen past 25 seconds. It sounded edgy. Gotta let my ears cool down and my tubs warm up!
 
The Magni 2 Uber (which I do not have) may be better than the Magni 2. The Vali (which I have) is definitely better than the Magni 2 for HD650 headphones. Lorde is putting a smile back on my face. There’s a nice wide separation between the vocals. I cannot help but think this is not quite as clear as the JDS Labs, and that no amount of volume will overcome that issue, but I am finding the sound entertaining, and not tiring. With the very first slow cymbal decay on Fleetwood Mac, I know I like this sound. The instruments aren’t on top each other, but I think they are a little more separate when played through the JDS Labs.
 
I know no one here is likely to consider the Valhalla as an alternative to JDS Labs amplifier. But it (along with my Bifrost Uber) is what I purposely bought to drive my HD650 headphones. So for my personal edification, I decided to continue the comparison using the Valhalla, while keeping the Meridian DAC in place. There is more detail than the Vali, but there’s a lot of grain on the Norah Jones song, just like I remembered. On Lorde, the Valhalla sounds closer to the Magni 2, not like the Vali or JDS Labs. It sounds like an improvement on the Magni 2 sound. Here is the issue with the first cymbal on the Fleetwood Mac song. The decay is there on all the amplifiers, but there is an immediate tap-tap-tap sound that starts on a different cymbal after the first cymbal is struck. On the two preferred amplifiers, I can more easily concentrate on the initial cymbal decay when the tapping starts. On the Magni 2 and Valhalla, the tapping sound either bothers me or covers up (sounds too similar to) the initial cymbal decay. The best way I can describe the Baker Baker sound issue is like a person having a conversation with you but they are in your personal space. Their argument does not hold the same sway as it would if they had simply made it at a distance where you could see their face entire, rather than only being able to see their mouth moving too closely. There is a proper distance for conveyance of emotion, and this setup is not that ideal distance.
 
You may not have gained any insights from my comparisons, but I certainly did. The JDS Labs sounded like something special from the moment I listened to it a week ago.
 
Aug 2, 2015 at 9:03 PM Post #221 of 636
Did someone manage to open and change the input for head amp to Dac output ? I found where are the screws and open it, but i can;t see any jumper on the back of the board. Maybe there is a jumper on the other side , that means to take out the knob and also is very hard to take the case out because of the RCAs. I don;t want to broke it so if someone has a tutorial or did it , can post the steps how to take out the case without damage the board or the rca plugs? I forgot to ask for  Dac output instead of amp input when i order it, will be nice if you can switch it between amp input and dac ouput , maybe in the future they will put a switcher outside the case for that. Thank you !
 
Aug 2, 2015 at 11:47 PM Post #222 of 636
Thank you so much for this! Kind of a confusing read though I must admit. Couldn't really tell if you liked the sound of the element compared to the other 2 or not. Can't believe The Element has been out for more than a month and there isn't a single review. Kind of irritating to say the least. Thanks again for the comparison! Really appreciate it.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 12:46 AM Post #223 of 636
  Did someone manage to open and change the input for head amp to Dac output ? I found where are the screws and open it, but i can;t see any jumper on the back of the board. Maybe there is a jumper on the other side , that means to take out the knob and also is very hard to take the case out because of the RCAs. I don;t want to broke it so if someone has a tutorial or did it , can post the steps how to take out the case without damage the board or the rca plugs? I forgot to ask for  Dac output instead of amp input when i order it, will be nice if you can switch it between amp input and dac ouput , maybe in the future they will put a switcher outside the case for that. Thank you !


The jumpers are right there, on the bottom of the PCB. They are labelled SJ1 and SJ3. Just apply some solder.
 

 
Aug 3, 2015 at 8:50 AM Post #224 of 636
Thanks..honestly I was just looking for the Shiits a bit bright and the element is more neutral or something to that effect..but thats given me a lot to think about, very good write up. Though you did pretty much confirm everything Ive heard about the Magni...its forward and a bit bright..Kinda stinks because I really did want a Magni but it just doesn't seem like it would be a good match with my main headphones, AKG K7XXs. While a bit warm is probably exactly what they need.

What you really sold me on was that Meridian DAC....damn I cant spend 300 bucks on a DAC though. ...seriously you make me wish they made an element without a DAC.

Thank you so much for this! Kind of a confusing read though I must admit. Couldn't really tell if you liked the sound of the element compared to the other 2 or not. Can't believe The Element has been out for more than a month and there isn't a single review. Kind of irritating to say the least. Thanks again for the comparison! Really appreciate it.


Yeah there definitely doesn't seem to be the hype I would have thought with this, especially since new things tend to get a lot of attention. .

As for the review I gathered that he really likes the sound of the element.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 12:26 PM Post #225 of 636
Well I said it before, the Element is a nice piece of audio equip.  I found it to be as good as any other equipment I've tried in the price range with just a different flavour. Smooth and linear with power for any headphone. Intimate, laid back sound.  Looks nice on the desk. My recommendations.
 
Probably not worth going from something else that costs as much to it or similar setups such as o2 + odac. Just sell that and upgrade if you're looking to improve on sound.
 

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