Jazz recommendations?

[bigshot]

The Ken Burns compilation CDs are a lot better than the myopic, error filled, biased documentary itself.

See ya
Steve

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Ken Burns compilation CDs are a lot better than the myopic, error filled, biased documentary itself. See ya Steve

Yeah, but it can get you excited about listening to the music it talks about. It did it for me.

I just bought 2 great CD

Miles Davis - Milesstones - very bluesy
John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman - the mellowest Coltrane that I've heard and Hartman is a fantastic singer.

 

[musicmind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman - the mellowest Coltrane that I've heard and Hartman is a fantastic singer.

+1
Some beautiful ballads like "My one and only true love" and "Lush Life"
The compilation album "Coltrane for lovers" is also a nice sampler of the mellow Coltrane.

 

[velogreg]

Well there is Bill Evans- Waltz for Debby (If you don't believe me, just go ask Jude)
Then there is Bill Evans Trio- Sunday at the Village Vanguard
and in keeping with the ECM label recommendation ( I highly agree) and transitioning to more global contemporary interpretation there is Tord Gustavsen Trio- The Ground. Very good sonically recorded IMHO.

 

[Bootleg]

Did I miss it or has no one suggested Dave Brubeck yet?

For modern, try Brad Mehldau...especially if you like Radiohead (he covers a few songs in a jazzy style).

 

[islewind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif One way to learn about jazz is to rent, get out of the library, or whatever, Ken Burns' Jazz documentary.

Jazz isn't monolithic - the many different types and styles mean you need to check out a wide range. The Ken Burns doc is a very good place to start.

 

[Aman]

The Ken Burns documentary does a huge disservice to the jazz community. It's best to not suggest works which will undoubtedly slant and tilt a newbie's mind in regards to jazz.

I'm only speaking of the documentary itself - I never heard the discs because of how disgusted I was by the film. It's as if Wynton is a god of some sort...

 

[qpoiz]

Wes Montgomery and Django Reinhardt (it gives me chills to hear him play the way he does with two missing fingers) are my favorite.

 

[Slim Pickens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Ken Burns documentary does a huge disservice to the jazz community. It's best to not suggest works which will undoubtedly slant and tilt a newbie's mind in regards to jazz. I'm only speaking of the documentary itself - I never heard the discs because of how disgusted I was by the film. It's as if Wynton is a god of some sort...

Actually, the documentary did a fine service to the Jazz community in several ways:
1. giving a fine overview of where Jazz came from and how it grew
2. giving exposure to some Jazz artists who may have been relatively unfamiliar (Art Blakey, etc) to an audience that may have only recognized a few names, (Armstrong, Ellington)
3. some good historical background information on people like Louis Armstrong. for some people, Armstrong was that "Hello Dolly" guy in the Barbra Streisand movie
4. just seeing some of the old footage was thrilling for me. Armstrong in his prime, Blakey, Coltrane, Davis etc, seeing these were real people and not just names on albums

Who knows how many "newbies" were turned on to Jazz by this documentary? As far as "slanting" and "tilting", let the newbies decide what they like.

SP

 

[HiWire]

The Verve Remixed series might be right up your alley. Also check out St. Germain, both the Tourist album and their jazz mixes.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, the documentary did a fine service to the Jazz community in several ways: 1. giving a fine overview of where Jazz came from and how it grew 2. giving exposure to some Jazz artists who may have been relatively unfamiliar (Art Blakey, etc) to an audience that may have only recognized a few names, (Armstrong, Ellington) 3. some good historical background information on people like Louis Armstrong. for some people, Armstrong was that "Hello Dolly" guy in the Barbra Streisand movie 4. just seeing some of the old footage was thrilling for me. Armstrong in his prime, Blakey, Coltrane, Davis etc, seeing these were real people and not just names on albums Who knows how many "newbies" were turned on to Jazz by this documentary? As far as "slanting" and "tilting", let the newbies decide what they like. SP

To respond, I will quote somebody who can word it more eloquently than I.

Quote:

Ken Burns' interminable documentary, Jazz, starts with a wrong premise and degenerates from there ... Burns is a classicist, who is offended by the rawer sounds of the blues, its political dimension and inescapable class dynamic. Instead, Burns fixates on a particular kind of jazz music that appeals to his PBS sensibility: the swing era. It's a genre of jazz that enables Burns to throw around phrases such as 'Ellington is our Mozart.' He sees jazz as art form in the most culturally elitist sense, as being a museum piece, beautiful but dead, to be savored like a stroll through a gallery of paintings by the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood. ~Jeffrey St. Clair

Hell, that's only the start of it. The man gives a horribly skewed presentation of post-1960s jazz, fails to mention any of the big-leaguers of any sort from after that era, and doesn't even mention other musicians who were playing during that time (a young Sun Ra, perhaps?

). And he only continues the myth that jazz was "invented" in New Orleans, which is neither verifiable nor likely true.

What a great service he's done.

 

[Slim Pickens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif To respond, I will quote somebody who can word it more eloquently than I. Hell, that's only the start of it. The man gives a horribly skewed presentation of post-1960s jazz, fails to mention any of the big-leaguers of any sort from after that era, and doesn't even mention other musicians who were playing during that time (a young Sun Ra, perhaps? ). And he only continues the myth that jazz was "invented" in New Orleans, which is neither verifiable nor likely true. What a great service he's done.

I stand by every word I wrote.

SP

 

[Coltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, the documentary did a fine service to the Jazz community in several ways: 1. giving a fine overview of where Jazz came from and how it grew 2. giving exposure to some Jazz artists who may have been relatively unfamiliar (Art Blakey, etc) to an audience that may have only recognized a few names, (Armstrong, Ellington) 3. some good historical background information on people like Louis Armstrong. for some people, Armstrong was that "Hello Dolly" guy in the Barbra Streisand movie 4. just seeing some of the old footage was thrilling for me. Armstrong in his prime, Blakey, Coltrane, Davis etc, seeing these were real people and not just names on albums Who knows how many "newbies" were turned on to Jazz by this documentary? As far as "slanting" and "tilting", let the newbies decide what they like. SP

I would agree with most of this. However, for music post-1960 and for creative jazz after Hard Bop, the documentary is not just negligent, but often false, disrespectful, and consumed with arrogance and ignorance. It is a very good documentary for learning about the roots of jazz up to about Charlie Parker in the 40s and 50s.

However, most people who get into jazz in todays day and age are looking at post-Parker jazz (Dolphy, Trane, Miles, Weather Report, etc..) Because of that, the documentary is an embarrassing failure for most prospective listeners. However, as long as one understands that going in, I think its a fine documentary for learning some history.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, the documentary did a fine service to the Jazz community in several ways: 1. giving a fine overview of where Jazz came from and how it grew 2. giving exposure to some Jazz artists who may have been relatively unfamiliar (Art Blakey, etc) to an audience that may have only recognized a few names, (Armstrong, Ellington) 3. some good historical background information on people like Louis Armstrong. for some people, Armstrong was that "Hello Dolly" guy in the Barbra Streisand movie 4. just seeing some of the old footage was thrilling for me. Armstrong in his prime, Blakey, Coltrane, Davis etc, seeing these were real people and not just names on albums Who knows how many "newbies" were turned on to Jazz by this documentary? As far as "slanting" and "tilting", let the newbies decide what they like. SP

x2. It got me started seriously listening to jazz and buying CDs. Before seeing the documentary, I owned very few jazz CDs. The documentary get me excited about jazz. It's a great place to start. It might not be great for someone who already knows a lot about jazz, but for someone who knows nothing, it's great. For someone who wants to get into post-60s jazz, it might not be the best place to start. But some of the 60s and post-60s jazz might not be the best place to start. Some of it is not very accessible. If someone buys a Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman, or Eric Dolphy as their first jazz CD, it might be their last. That's music you need to work your way up to in my opinion.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif x2. It got me started seriously listening to jazz and buying CDs. Before seeing the documentary, I owned very few jazz CDs. The documentary get me excited about jazz. It's a great place to start. It might not be great for someone who already knows a lot about jazz, but for someone who knows nothing, it's great. For someone who wants to get into post-60s jazz, it might not be the best place to start. But some of the 60s and post-60s jazz might not be the best place to start. Some of it is not very accessible. If someone buys a Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman, or Eric Dolphy as their first jazz CD, it might be their last. That's music you need to work your way up to in my opinion.

I understand this point of view, but it's really a moot point. One must not discount the fact that documentaries are meant to preserve truth and validity regarding their topic. Simply put, Jazz was filled with misinformation, arrogance, and other potentially dangerous techniques. As much of a good introduction it may be for some earlier eras of jazz, it doesn't even provide a sufficient "history lesson" in that regard. It practically bases its entire existence off of the idea that jazz was "invented" in New Orleans, which, to reiterate, is neither conformable nor likely true.

I am comfortable with making the suggestion that anybody who is not willing to point out these flaws feels the same way as Ken Burns does already towards post-60s and avant-garde jazz music.