Jade II Discussion

[billqs]

Without a doubt the KGSSHV is the better amp, but at the price in the ad, the Jade 2 amp has great bang for buck appeal. I wonder why the seller is dragging his feet. It's not exactly confidence inspiring that his ad says to ignore the hiss the amp puts out. You would think there would be a place where you could see these specs. You are very correct there should be a way to see objective specs and measurements to give a good idea about you are spending hard-earned money on. ASR has some measurements, but IMO, Amir doesn't understand electrostatic phones and amps so his measurements and pronouncements based on them are controversial.

 

[draytonklammer]

Without a doubt the KGSSHV is the better amp, but at the price in the ad, the Jade 2 amp has great bang for buck appeal. I wonder why the seller is dragging his feet. It's not exactly confidence inspiring that his ad says to ignore the hiss the amp puts out. You would think there would be a place where you could see these specs. You are very correct there should be a way to see objective specs and measurements to give a good idea about you are spending hard-earned money on. ASR has some measurements, but IMO, Amir doesn't understand electrostatic phones and amps so his measurements and pronouncements based on them are controversial.

Decisions, decisions...
Making me honestly wish I would've jumped for that Mini you grabbed haha.

The problem I have with the OG is that it's gigantic and I don't have a lot of desk space with all of my PC peripherals.

Just feels almost wrong to immediately sell the 353X and grab something higher end, when I don't feel like the 353X is lacking to begin with, at least on the single electrostatic I have so far.

 

[SolarCetacean]

Wish there was a specs sheet to compare all of these amps in terms of max voltage swing and other power and distortion metrics.

Hifiman for whatever reason never puts out spec sheets for their estat amps. Maybe because they're meant to be paired with specific headphones so they think it doesn't matter. Stax amps do have spec sheets though, as do the BHSE and the Eksonic amps.

The 3rd party amps can vary in their voltage output levels depending on the builder. I've seen references to 400Vrms, 450Vrms, and 500Vrms designs of the KGSSHV. I think the intended option is for people to either ask the builder for the output, or look at the schematic which will tell you.

But be aware that output voltage isn't that useful a metric with estat amps. Estat amps tend to vary their peak output voltage with frequency more than most non-estat amps. Another head-fi user posted some really useful measurements here about the maximum output voltage vs frequency of the SRM-1 and some other transformer-based amps. See how the SRM-1, despite its 420Vrms output rating, can't maintain that output above 1 KHz. And measurements on ASR of the Topping EHA-5 show that despite its nice 700 Vrms rated output, it can only output 229 Vrms at 20 Hz before it shuts down, and THD is over 3% at that point, while it can go up to only 500 Vrms at 20 KHz. Getting a flat FR on an estat amp is significantly harder than on a regular headphone amp regardless of whether you use direct drive or transformers.

 

[billqs]

The key is getting full 20-20khz ratings on the power. Topping generally hits their products out of the park from a measurements standpoint, the EHA 5 is a surprising disappointment. Basically, they put one of their standard amp designs behind transformers for the estat amp. What is surprising is that in the link with the amp measurements, the Topping amps driving an SRD-7 box gave some of the best non-Lindahl 1630 results, if I read it correctly. Topping must have not chosen the transformers correctly for the design.

EDITED TO ADD: I've seen a lot about Lundahl Transformers and how good they are for working with ESTATS. Are there any products available that use them or is someone building energizer boxes with them?

 

[billqs]

The problem I have with the OG is that it's gigantic and I don't have a lot of desk space with all of my PC peripherals.

Just feels almost wrong to immediately sell the 353X and grab something higher end, when I don't feel like the 353X is lacking to begin with, at least on the single electrostatic I have so far.

The OG of both the KGSSHV and Carbon are huge, no doubt about it. They took up more valuable desk square footage than my McIntosh MHA 100 amp, which is no slouch size-wize on its own.

 

[draytonklammer]

The key is getting full 20-20khz ratings on the power. Topping generally hits their products out of the park from a measurements standpoint, the EHA 5 is a surprising disappointment. Basically, they put one of their standard amp designs behind transformers for the estat amp. What is surprising is that in the link with the amp measurements, the Topping amps driving an SRD-7 box gave some of the best non-Lindahl 1630 results, if I read it correctly. Topping must have not chosen the transformers correctly for the design.

EDITED TO ADD: I've seen a lot about Lundahl Transformers and how good they are for working with ESTATS. Are there any products available that use them or is someone building energizer boxes with them?

I have a Woo Wee (modded) on the way.
Makes me wonder if that plus a pair of LA90D would be better than buying a KGSSHV.

Wish that linked user had metrics for the Mjolnir KGSSHV...

 

[billqs]

Outside of STAX mafia circles I've heard good things about the Woo Wee as long as protective output resistors are added so your phones don't melt. Hooking that up with the LA90D would probably give you the best you could expect out of a transformer box set up. I don't know about being better than a KGSSHV.

Will you do an A/B of the Wee and your 353x on your estat phones? I'll do some A/B testing between my SRD-7SB and KGSSHV mini and maybe we can get some interesting data.

 

[draytonklammer]

Outside of STAX mafia circles I've heard good things about the Woo Wee as long as protective output resistors are added so your phones don't melt. Hooking that up with the LA90D would probably give you the best you could expect out of a transformer box set up. I don't know about being better than a KGSSHV.

Will you do an A/B of the Wee and your 353x on your estat phones? I'll do some A/B testing between my SRD-7SB and KGSSHV mini and maybe we can get some interesting data.

This sounds like a generally good plan.
I'm going to be trying the Woo Wee with a few nice monoblocks setups I have on hand.

Curious if it'll make any difference compared to the 353X.

I've heard lots of good things about the KGSSHV, but it's hard to sell myself on it without any actual data to attempt to prove an actual measurable change over anything else.

 

[billqs]

I understand where you're coming from, though I have no doubts about a Mjolnir built KGSSHV as I've owned it before and I know it's a great design. I'm still kicking myself for selling a custom Carbon built by Soren Brix I had built for me a couple of years ago.

 

[draytonklammer]

I understand where you're coming from, though I have no doubts about a Mjolnir built KGSSHV as I've owned it before and I know it's a great design. I'm still kicking myself for selling a custom Carbon built by Soren Brix I had built for me a couple of years ago.

Decisions... decisions...
You're making me wish I wouldn't have dragged my own feet on that Mini haha.

 

[charliex]

I thought I was buying it, but the buyer doesn't seem terribly motivated to sell to me.

Making me consider just grabbing a KGSSHV, but I really don't know.

Wish there was a specs sheet to compare all of these amps in terms of max voltage swing and other power and distortion metrics.

Buy the KGSSHV, you won't be disappointed. I'm using mine to power my Sennheiser HE60 and a variety of Stax phones.
My Jade 2 experience wasn't a good one. The amp died after only a couple of years, and the phones themselves wore
out quite quickly.

 

[SolarCetacean]

Had the ability to hear the Jade II myself yesterday at the DC area meet. I heard it on the Shangri-La Jr amp with the iFi micro-iDSD and the Ferrum Erco as DACs. The Jade to my ears has less extension in both bass and treble compared with the SGL Jr and I didn't get the same sense of clarity overall. The Jr also has a better sense of punch on dynamics compared to the Jade. However, the Jade can be smoother (probably due to less dynamics and less treble) when the chain is more aggressive. The Ferrum Erco with its added dynamic swings starts to strain at the Jr's smoothness in the treble and moves it more towards being aggressive with tracks with lots of treble dynamics while the Jade doesn't have as much of an issue even with highly aggressive and dynamic sources like a tweaked Erco.

 

[Svperstar]

Buy the KGSSHV, you won't be disappointed. I'm using mine to power my Sennheiser HE60 and a variety of Stax phones.
My Jade 2 experience wasn't a good one. The amp died after only a couple of years, and the phones themselves wore
out quite quickly.

LOL I've been debating what amp/headphone to be my entry into Stax, I've only heard the L700 MK2 and the X9000. I thought the Jade II might be a great combo deal but not if it died after a couple of years. Thanks!

 

[ColSaulTigh]

LOL I've been debating what amp/headphone to be my entry into Stax, I've only heard the L700 MK2 and the X9000. I thought the Jade II might be a great combo deal but not if it died after a couple of years. Thanks!

As I mentioned in the Stax thread, the Jade II are ok for the price, but they're nowhere near the build quality of ANY Stax headphones (much less the x9000's). They sound fine for the price though. I had a Stax 007 (OG version) and they were OK, but now I run my Kevin Gilmore Grounded Grid setup and that makes EVERYTHING sound incredible. Invest in a quality amp up front and you'll love estats. Bear in mind, NO estats are going to give you the bass impact that a good Planar or Dynamic Driver provides. estats are about clean sound. Bass bangers need not apply.

 

[Svperstar]

estats are about clean sound. Bass bangers need not apply.

I found the bass on the L700 mk2 (I think thats what I heard) to be more then fine. I currently own the Koss 95X and I like the sound even the bass when EQed. Its unfortunate that the amp has some kind of filter you can't turn off that filters everything <200 hz.

Plenty of people have said the Koss estat sounds great with a Stax energizer...... I'm just stuck on what to get. I don't know if I should go crazy and order like a Blue Hawaii or a Carbon or something or hope to get a good used Stax deal and go from there.