[paradoxper]

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Uh, the timing of the DAC oscillator is not under software control.

I'm not understanding why that matters.

 

[Destroysall]

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On my system, it does not appear to actually be using WASAPI output, which does not guarantee a bit-perfect output. I can't hear it switching from 24/48 to 24/44 when playing back music either, so I suspect it is still resampling.

It is possible for iTunes to do bit-perfect output, at least on OS X, but it does not support dynamically changing its output if you have a library that has a mixture of sample rates, rather than just 44.1kHz files. (bit-depth doesn't matter)

If you have your system configured in such a way that playing back 44.1 files in iTunes is bit-perfect, then playing back 48kHz or others will not be - at least not without an external utility such as Amarra handling the sample rate switching.

With the latest update, you are given the option to change both the sampling rate and bit-depth to allow for bit-perfect playback. It does however require a restart of the program before taking into effect.
 
In terms of which audio player works best (and with what external utility), I find no audible difference between J River's Media Center; MediaMonkey; Foobar2000; and iTunes.

 

[sterling1]

I've tried out all of the media players you have used; and, I too do not hear any difference except for volume. I have settled on iTunes since it is as comprehensive as it is convenient.

 

[teofilrocks]

With the latest update, you are given the option to change both the sampling rate and bit-depth to allow for bit-perfect playback. It does however require a restart of the program before taking into effect.

In terms of which audio player works best (and with what external utility), I find no audible difference between J River's Media Center; MediaMonkey; Foobar2000; and iTunes.

I'm going to use the BitPerfect app for OSX to do the switching for me. It only costs $10 and will let me continue to use iTunes as a media organizer.

 

[StudioSound]

With the latest update, you are given the option to change both the sampling rate and bit-depth to allow for bit-perfect playback. It does however require a restart of the program before taking into effect.

Yes, but on my system it does not appear to either be outputting WASAPI, or actually changing the sample rate - if I set the system output to 24/48, and my player to 24/44, I normally hear a "pop" in my headphones as the player changes the sample rate. iTunes does not do this when set to 24/44. Perhaps someone with an external DAC that shows the sample rate it is being sent could confirm this.

In terms of which audio player works best (and with what external utility), I find no audible difference between J River's Media Center; MediaMonkey; Foobar2000; and iTunes.

The difference is that JRiver has a very good gapless WASAPI Event Style output, and great controls over sample rates - you have individual control for what happens to: <44.1, 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, >192, whether to bitstream DSD, output it as DoP, or convert it to PCM. You can even set a delay on the audio to account for how long your system takes to switch sample rates. And if you want to use DSP at all (ReplayGain, EQ etc.) it is all done with 64-bit precision which is better than most.

A lot of these things are just convenience (i.e. not having to manually switch sample rate, not having to rip discs to a single file for gapless WASAPI output etc.) but quality should be better if you are using DSP.

If you aren't using DSP and all your files are 16/44 CD rips, then another player outputting 16/44 WASAPI (or 24/44 - it doesn't matter) should sound identical.
And you don't need WASAPI to output bit-perfect either - it just makes it easier.


As long as a player is decoding correctly and you have a bit-perfect output, they should all sound the same.


I actually prefer iTunes' interface over anything else I've tried so far, but it's a nuisance to get bit-perfect output, and even when you do, it's not outputting WASAPI Exclusive/Event, so you can still hear system sounds etc. while music is playing. JRiver seems to be the best alternative though, and the interface isn't that bad once you learn it - the problem is that you have to learn how to configure it the way you want, whereas iTunes is mostly fine out of the box.

 

[Destroysall]

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I'm going to use the BitPerfect app for OSX to do the switching for me. It only costs $10 and will let me continue to use iTunes as a media organizer.

I don't have a Macintosh computer at the moment. I do plan on making the switch soon as I would love to use BitPerfect and have the benefit of it playing FLAC files.
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I actually prefer iTunes' interface over anything else I've tried so far, but it's a nuisance to get bit-perfect output, and even when you do, it's not outputting WASAPI Exclusive/Event, so you can still hear system sounds etc.

I much prefer it as well. I haven't been bothered much by system sounds but I do wish to learn if it is possible to output system sounds to a separate audio device..

 

[StudioSound]

I much prefer it as well. I haven't been bothered much by system sounds but I do wish to learn if it is possible to output system sounds to a separate audio device..

I don't know about outputting them to another audio device, but WASAPI Exclusive/Event Style output "takes over" the sound card and doesn't allow any other audio to pass through it.

 

[sterling1]

I don't comprehend WAS; but, with my set-up, it appears, I have the best computer audio to date. iTunes is set for WAS and 24/96. My Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD is set for 24/96. Via USB from computer to X-FI HD, the signal is converted to optical S/PDIF and sent to home theatre pre/pro (Sony TA-E9000ES). The pre/pro's LED display indicates that all input is at 24/96. Some of my iTunes library is material at 24/96 while most are 16/44 CD rips. All files are ALAC. Since the 16/44 files sound fabulous up sampled at 24/96, I have not manually adjusted the X-FI from 24/96 to 16/44 when playing such files.
 
Since I began enjoying the benefits of computer audio, about 3 years ago, I've gone from a direct analog connection from the computer to pre/pro to what I now have, as just mentioned. I also have replaced my Dell Iaptop with a Toshiba laptop. The sound I hear today is much improved from my original arrangement. I now prefer music on my home theatre from the laptop than from other sources such as SACD player or turntable. It just sounds really good and very convenient,  now that I am able to use my iPhone and Mini iPad for remote control of the system. Technology WOW!

 

[Destroysall]

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Since I began enjoying the benefits of computer audio, about 3 years ago, I've gone from a direct analog connection from the computer to pre/pro to what I now have, as just mentioned. I also have replaced my Dell Iaptop with a Toshiba laptop. The sound I hear today is much improved from my original arrangement. I now prefer music on my home theatre from the laptop than from other sources such as SACD player or turntable. It just sounds really good and very convenient,  now that I am able to use my iPhone and Mini iPad for remote control of the system. Technology WOW!

Then all that's left is to kick back and sip a cup of tea and enjoy the good music..

 

[sterling1]

Yes, exactly. Being satisfied, I can really enjoy the music. What a pleasure. It's the opposite of listening with a turntable as the source component. Listening with the turntable, I'm thinking about azimuth and other techy things which get in the way of the music.

 

[teofilrocks]

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It's the opposite of listening with a turntable as the source component. Listening with the turntable, I'm thinking about azimuth and other techy things which get in the way of the music.

 
That's interesting, it's completely the opposite for me. I just put a record on and play. Then again, I've never gotten into the finer details of turntable tech.

 

[sterling1]

I wish I could just put on a record and be content.

 

[Eee Pee]

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I wish I could just put on a record and be content.

 
I know that feeling having been into records, et al in the mid 90s through the new decade and then not until about a year or so ago.  Convenience is one thing, but there's something about the sound, ritual, and set up of a record player that brought me back.    
 
And I'm loving it all over again.
 
It's almost the complete opposite of an iTunes user in such that there's so much tweaking to various components that can be done that it can be too much.  So simple is the iPod/iTunes dac amp and headphones compared to all the ingredients to make a vinyl set up work, and more so to sound good.

 

[sterling1]

I think I have my turntable set up correctly but I don't have the proper measuring tools to be sure, just my eyeball and a mirror. No matter what my listening intent, it seems, instead of just enjoying the music, I find myself using the music to evaluate the turntable's performance. No doubt, there's an interaction there which is as interesting as it is compelling; but, it's clearly a distraction too.
 
 I'm also interested in photography. In that arena, digital is much more convenient; yet, the interaction of user to media when using film I think still has some relevance  in getting to a desired destination with it all.

 

[teofilrocks]

 I'm also interested in photography. In that arena, digital is much more convenient; yet, the interaction of user to media when using film I think still has some relevance  in getting to a desired destination with it all.

It really is about enjoying the experience. I've been shooting digitally since 2003, but this past year decided to sell all my digital gear and switch totally to film, mostly medium format. It's not as convenient but I enjoy the experience more, even developing my own b&w film. The same is true for audio. iTunes is quick and convenient (and I'm not getting rid of it) but sometimes I just want to enjoy the music experience. That's where vinyl shines.