It's got to stop!
Aug 22, 2017 at 1:10 PM Post #331 of 461
Things are generally cheaper in the US (even more true during sales periods, with very few true bargains in EU), but for sure you can find exceptions.
If you want to scream in horror, open US Amazon and French/German Amazon and start comparing, you'll be surprised.
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 2:26 PM Post #332 of 461
That is where the Trade Forums come in very handy. As I write this, I'm happily listening to my HE500's that never
seem to disappoint. Traded a pair of Audeze SINEs that didn't agree w/ me. You can have your cake and eat it too if you're willing to wait a bit, trade a bit, listen a bit and hear what's best for you.
 
Sep 2, 2017 at 12:30 PM Post #333 of 461
"The value of money is in proportion to the quantity of the necessaries of life of which it will purchase. That of the necessaries of life is all together independent of the quantity of money which can be had for them."

~ Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith

The amount of money that has been printed over the last number of decades is astonishing. When the U.S. detached itself from its monetary anchor (gold) in 1971, it began printing currency in earnest to fund its deficits. As a global reserve currency, this money liquidates the world; not to mention other currencies that peg themselves to the dollar. Financial institutions utilizing fractional reserve banking models, loans, and derivatives create even greater supplies of currency (M1, M2, M3, etc). Fresh currency entering market circulation is often intuitively spent by consumers instead of saved for reasons that they may not be fully aware.

Low interest-rates (i.e. cheap money) incentivize spending cash today because it'll be worth less tomorrow. In contrast, high interest-rates incentivize saving money because it'll be worth more tomorrow.

So we understand how low interest-rates lend to cheap money which is often readily spent creating what economists call an increased 'velocity of money' in the market place. This velocity of money enters various markets for purchasing goods and services. The supply of goods relative to the demand paid for by a rapidly growing money supply creates a system for which prices must rise. Even the most ethical, philanthropic producers/sellers are unable to swim against this economic current of price growth.

If you doubt this economic model then try selling your house, car, or labor for what it would sell for in 1950 and see if you can remain solvent.

Moore's Law, Cooper's Law, et al., contributes to our understanding of how developing technology and commoditization leads to better efficiency. This efficiency in labor/production reflects economically as downward pressure on costs, but depending on any particular market or niche, the upward pressure of inflation could still be greater resulting in a net positive increase in prices.

This is not to say that price gouging doesn't exist, but this is only possible if a buyer is willing to participate (i.e. purchase a product). For every seller needs a buyer to validate the asking price. If not, then prices must be lowered or the services discontinued. Yet, for all practical purposes, a buyer may only purchase goods if they have access to a supply of capital (medium of exchange). This rapidly-growing supply of capital is cheap money which contributes to the inflation we're witnessing in this hobby.

People often cite Sennheiser HD580/600/650's price decrease over the years as examples of how your dollar has not lost value. Contrary to this notion, this is more of an example of the laws or commodity principles I mentioned earlier. Sennheiser produced the first iteration of this series for over 23 years (HD580, circa 1994). They've become pretty efficient at manufacturing this series. Reduced manufacturing costs and little to no further research and development costs in a particular product can help a company outpace inflationary pressures (net negative) to help maintain a competitive pricing advantage with said product.

Can the same be said about a new-fangled flagship fresh out of the R&D department?

So, this post simply brings awareness to the term 'Money/Price Illusion' which is loosely defined as the tendency of people to think of currency in nominal rather than in real terms. Hence, the purchasing power of a $1 bill may actually be 50¢. despite the number on the note. When a seller prices their goods, they must account for this diminished value in purchasing power and accordingly charge double the price of the note.
 
Sep 2, 2017 at 1:25 PM Post #334 of 461
You rather skipped over the whole issue of the "Petro Dollar" enabling the US to get off the gold standard and essentially leverage the world into accepting thiers as the de facto currency. Without that incredible leverage it would be just another state currency buoyed up solely by the strength of it's economy. As all oil transactions are done in dollars it gives them a disproportionate ability to print money to solve interim issues.
 
Sep 2, 2017 at 2:13 PM Post #337 of 461
@yangian

Lol

People can and will say what they want but at the end of the day...,

It's the truth. Accept it!..

Agreed. There are really only a small group of people willing to spend this kind of money for a headphone because sound quality is more noticeable/enjoyable/important to them than to most others. That means the purchasers of these products will pay more but they are also very critical listeners. I disagree that those with sensitive ears and exposure to multiple high end audio experiences are completely fooled into believing that a headphone sounds better simply because it is higher priced. And its not like these top end phones are sold in mass quantities. I would be curious to know the sales totals for LCD4s/HE1000/Utopias compared to overall sales of all headphones. It may be that as far as profit margins go, a $100 pair of earbuds that can be manufactured in China for 75¢ more readily qualifies as 'gouging' than a $3-4,000 pair of TOTL headphones from a small boutique company.
 
Sep 2, 2017 at 3:51 PM Post #338 of 461
As they say "we've only our selves to blame" as long as some one is willing to pay (justify) the asking price or buy into an illusion.
Here in the north headphone prices pale in comparison to putting a roof over ones head....:triportsad: ....all part of the current trends.."cheap money".
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-teardown-real-estate-1.3449869
Screen Shot 2017-09-02 at 3.38.59 PM.png

At least there is currently a slight correction going on in the mortgage industry and those TOTL phones are entering the used market.... hopefully looking better than that $2.5M house...:beyersmile:
 
Sep 2, 2017 at 4:06 PM Post #339 of 461
Agreed. There are really only a small group of people willing to spend this kind of money for a headphone because sound quality is more noticeable/enjoyable/important to them than to most others. That means the purchasers of these products will pay more but they are also very critical listeners. I disagree that those with sensitive ears and exposure to multiple high end audio experiences are completely fooled into believing that a headphone sounds better simply because it is higher priced. And its not like these top end phones are sold in mass quantities. I would be curious to know the sales totals for LCD4s/HE1000/Utopias compared to overall sales of all headphones. It may be that as far as profit margins go, a $100 pair of earbuds that can be manufactured in China for 75¢ more readily qualifies as 'gouging' than a $3-4,000 pair of TOTL headphones from a small boutique company.

First of all, the market is dominated by IEM's / Earbuds. Also in the headphone market, Wireless headphones are taking over the non-Wireless headphone market. So I'm pretty sure that the market share of such high-end headphone is not worth mentioning as it is close to 0%.

On head-fi, you'd probably think that headphones like the Sennheiser HD 650 would be the best sold headphones. In reality, it is Beats and Apple that dominate this market.
 
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Sep 2, 2017 at 4:26 PM Post #340 of 461
You rather skipped over the whole issue of the "Petro Dollar" enabling the US to get off the gold standard and essentially leverage the world into accepting thiers as the de facto currency. Without that incredible leverage it would be just another state currency buoyed up solely by the strength of it's economy. As all oil transactions are done in dollars it gives them a disproportionate ability to print money to solve interim issues.

I considered touching on the topic, but the issue would encourage red-herrings and violate Head-fi rules on political discussion. Therefore I was left with marco and socioeconomics to address the overall theme of this thread.
 
Sep 2, 2017 at 4:41 PM Post #341 of 461
I considered touching on the topic, but the issue would encourage red-herrings and violate Head-fi rules on political discussion. Therefore I was left with marco and socioeconomics to address the overall theme of this thread.

Agreed. The political ramifications would lead us into the Bannhammer zone.

Still marketwise I see the Asians about to do the same thing here that they did back in the 70's in the automotive industry. Once a market is opened their ideal of faster, better cheaper, to flood and usurp a market cannot be far off. At that point we will get to hear the 5k phone hawkers start crying about unfair competition and boycotts and embargos. Unfortunately in a luxury industry their cries will fall largely upon deaf ears:)
 
Sep 2, 2017 at 4:49 PM Post #342 of 461
First of all, the market is dominated by IEM's / Earbuds. Also in the headphone market, Wireless headphones are taking over the non-Wireless headphone market. So I'm pretty sure that the market share of such high-end headphone is not worth mentioning as it is close to 0%.

On head-fi, you'd probably think that headphones like the Sennheiser HD 650 would be the best sold headphones. In reality, it is Beats and Apple that dominate this market.

So true.....even though the legacy continues on the HD650 with the last Massdrop of over 21,500 on their HD6XX edition....still only a drop in the bucket if that of market share.
 
Sep 2, 2017 at 5:28 PM Post #343 of 461
I considered touching on the topic, but the issue would encourage red-herrings and violate Head-fi rules on political discussion. Therefore I was left with marco and socioeconomics to address the overall theme of this thread.


Going to extreme lengths to avoid the simple truth which is actually easy to understand.
 
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Sep 2, 2017 at 6:05 PM Post #345 of 461
People often cite Sennheiser HD580/600/650's price decrease over the years as examples of how your dollar has not lost value. Contrary to this notion, this is more of an example of the laws or commodity principles I mentioned earlier. Sennheiser produced the first iteration of this series for over 23 years (HD580, circa 1994). They've become pretty efficient at manufacturing this series. Reduced manufacturing costs and little to no further research and development costs in a particular product can help a company outpace inflationary pressures (net negative) to help maintain a competitive pricing advantage with said product.

Ever heard of the HD700, 800 and 800S? have you any idea how much it costs Sennheiser to make those headphones?
But the HD600/650 are no longer Sennheisers most advanced headphones. I think the The HD600/650 are actually overpriced.
 
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