[melancholypunk]

You guys are all funny.

The reason most people don't spend very much on headphones is because of this: portable > sound. Not many people want to walk around with big clunky ear phones especially when your outside and being active. The streetstyle are so popular because they are comfortable so for students running around all day they are the best choice (affordable/comfy/stay on).

Another reason, is maybe they dont use their headphones very often. For example, last semester I drove to school every day, so I had my stereo for home, my car stereo to and from school (or wherever else I went) I hardly touched my discman.

In these 2 cases, no one wants to spend a lot of money on something they will not use very often. Especially when you are on a tight budget, you don't want to go out and spend >$100 for headphones.

Now I'm on the train and metro every day (which is why i got the ex70's) but sadly they didn't work out.

 

[andrzejpw]

Yeah, I understand that coby sucks, but . . .

how did they grow so fast???

 

[carlo]

Quote:

That most people will spend 300 dollars on speakers but won't spend half that on headphones?

andrezjw,

Well, most people who have $300 speaker based setups are building a budget based system and would rather invest the money for senns on their components. The more challenging question is why many $5k+ systems don't include a quality headphone system (a search among AA members will confirm this).

Quote:

well.. i try not to feel too elitist because i have an interest in phones/audio. the fact is i'm upper middle class, have a bit of cash to throw around and some free time on my hands. everyone needs a hobby. i probably could have gotten into a multitude of things but i just happened to discover this little niche of the world at the right time.

Gorgon,

Excellent points... audiphphilea is just a hobby - the fact is that most of the public isn't interested in the hassle that this brings.

Quote:

They can't believe there's anything better than Bose. They don't even have they best system. They think it's wonderful. They think my system sounds real good, but it's too expensive. About $10K.

Gaineso,

My primary system approaches this in retail cost, and yes it does out perform (in my opinion) Bose in every aspect of sound reproduction. However, it also needs a dedicated room and took a hell of a lot of time/experimentation/saving (a few years' worth) to put together.

Keep in mind that there's quite a few of us in the hobby that can't believe that eveyone doesn't have a turntable setup (myself included). Or who shake their heads when people say tubed equipment and extensive auditioning of components is too much of a hassle. I'm sure others think those of us who buy equipment instead of DIYing are idiots. It's really a matter of convience vs. quality.

Bose has a nice little niche in terms of style and status... but everything's relative. Many people aren't willing to invest the space required to build a high performance two channel setup, even on a budget (components, correct speaker placement). I don't hate Bose, I feel sorry for the people who haven't taken the time to hear something better.

best,

carlo

 

[KR...]

Quote:

how did they grow so fast???

2 reasons :

1. Because they are inexpensive.

2. Because the majority of people couldn't care less about sound quality.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

The streetstyle are so popular because they are comfortable so for students running around all day they are the best choice (affordable/comfy/stay on).

But why don't people who want these type of headphones at least go for ones that sound good?. The Sony/Panasonic/etc. "StreetStyles" sound horrible. For less money, they could get the Koss KSC-55 (same style), Koss SportaPro (which also folds behind the head) or Koss KSC-35, which are affordable/comfy/stay on. All of these are high-quality headphones that are cheap and blow away what most people use.

The problem, as others have said, is not with style. It's that most people don't know what good sound is, or don't care.

 

[pawwh98]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF But why don't people who want these type of headphones at least go for ones that sound good?. The Sony/Panasonic/etc. "StreetStyles" sound horrible. For less money, they could get the Koss KSC-55 (same style), Koss SportaPro (which also folds behind the head) or Koss KSC-35, which are affordable/comfy/stay on. All of these are high-quality headphones that are cheap and blow away what most people use. The problem, as others have said, is not with style. It's that most people don't know what good sound is, or don't care.

I guess that many people simply underestimate the actual differences in sound quality concerning especially portable headphones. My uncle, a musician, once commented my extensive search for usable headphones as 'waste of time and money, since they all sound alike'

 

[Tuberoller]

It's easy enough to fault Bose with "better sound through marketing".But how many of us have owned a Bose product over the years.Probably many more than will admit to it.Bose has introduced many,many people to hifi.They buy Bose, realize it is actually not the best there is, and upgrade.I have seen plenty of people trade in old 901s for a new set of speakers and have seen many more trade in an acoustimass system for a nice PSB or Paradigm system.ANY sale by Bose,Yamaha,JBL etc. is a potential addition to our ranks.Companies like Denon and Polk have recently seen the light and they are now sold in many of the big chains.You can buy Senns at Tweeter,Circuit City,ABT.Grado is selling headphones at just about every site I check.Our hobby must constantly add new blood to grow.Being critical of your own relatives because of the equipment they own is not conducive to promoting our hobby.

For many years I stayed away from the hobby because of the "audio snobs" that populated most of the hi-end audio outlets.Look at how many GOOD audio publications there are left,they can be counted on one hand.This snobery and intolerence has cost us all.The prices of hi-end audio gear has recently went skyward not just because of greed but also due to the smaller numbers of unit sales due to lack of enthusiasts.Even though I can appreciate high quality audio reproduction I don't jump on those who can't.I make my attempts to enlighten them and if I am unsuccessful I move on.I don't insult them so that now not only do they not think there is no difference in available audio components they think that I and everyone else like me(audio enthusiasts)is a fanatic or worse yet a nut.I dispute the notion that most people do not desire good sound quality,they simply have never heard anything better than what is mass marketed.I have helped people hear good sound reproduction by having some tunes playing when they come by and allowing them to listen,not by having them by and bragging about how I can hear stuff that isn't there and about how much my sytem costs.I recently took my boss and his son with me to make an audio purchase,I needed help carrying something heavy but I took the opportunity to allow them to listen to some good sounding-high value equipment.Both have since purchased upgraded equipment.I guess you can tell I have had this discussion before,but it is valid I believe,to be worried about the state of our hobby.I spoke with Doug Schneider,publisher of Soundstage.com yesterday at the Chicago Head-fi gathering and his sentiments were the same.Do what you can to educate people.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Bose has introduced many,many people to hifi.They buy Bose, realize it is actually not the best there is, and upgrade.I have seen plenty of people trade in old 901s for a new set of speakers and have seen many more trade in an acoustimass system for a nice PSB or Paradigm system.ANY sale by Bose,Yamaha,JBL etc.

Tuberoller, I disagree. I think it's easy to feel that way from where we sit, since a) we have moved on to better stuff (or skipped Bose altogether); and b) the people we know probably hear from *us* that they can get much better than Bose, and are the people *most* likely to move up

But for the rest of the world (the vast, vast majority), the local superstore is the closest thing to a "hi-end" audio shop they'll ever visit. They think Bose is the best because a) it's the most expensive at the store; b) the salespeople push it as the best; and c) it's got such high name recognition. MOST of the people who buy Bose think it's the best there is, and never move up the audio ladder. Bose has become such a pervasive "status symbol" that many, many people buy it just so they can say that they own Bose (whether its in their home or their car). What's worse, they are so bought into the whole marketing blitz, that if you try to tell them that they can get much better, they laugh in your face

Finally, once the average person is convinced that Bose is the best there is, it's even *harder* to convince them otherwise, because they then associate the trademark "Bose sound" -- which we know is horribly inaccurate -- with "good" sound. When you try to get them to compare Bose equipment with much better equipment in the same price range, they think "it doesn't sound like Bose, so it's not very good." This phenomenon reinforces the superstore's policies on what equipment to carry.

So I don't buy the "Bose is the first step to the high end" theory. For all the reasons I mentioned above, I prefer to be preemptive, and to steer people away from Bose stuff in the first place. And I think any responsible audiophile who wants to see more and better audio equipment, should do the same. I don't think this is a matter of "snobbery" at all. It's a simple matter of trying to help people to buy better equipment for the same money, and to discourage people from buying under-performing, over-designed, over-priced products. Bose has a head start of almost 40 years of propaganda; every little bit helps.

 

[Tuberoller]

MacDef,
I wish a preemptive approach was always possible.I know it is much more difficult to convince people once they have an idea of what they think good sound is.But this is the condition of the vast majority of people you will encounter.I hate to see the dealer in a hi-end audio store trying to convince someone that this lower-priced component is more accurate than the components they have been led to believe are the best.The price vs. percieved performance factor comes into play as well,to a point.I would'nt even mention a set of $5000.00 speakers to a guy who just climbed off a set of Bose 901s even if I knew he could afford them,but often he is encouraged to spend the big money.I have seen people turn around and leave an audio store when this approach is taken.I firmly believe that snobbery is in play here.When a guy is almost ashamed to be related to someone because they can't appriciate better quality sound, he is a snob.When someone won't even allow a person to listen to his headphones because he thinks they won't be able to tell the difference between good and bad sound,he is a snob.Education through submersion has always proven effective.Any chance you get to allow someone to hear your equipment,take it.

 

[Tim D]

I'm pretty sure the "ashamed to be related" thing is a joke. Although a pretty scary joke indeed lol.

I don't think snobbery needs to be any part of it...and I don't think you NEED to show someone a MORE expensive setup that outperforms Bose when you can show them a much LESS expensive setup that should outperform Bose!

I do let some people try my Ety's with foams and I always let them try any full-size can, and got one friend to semi-appreciate them(as in like the way they sound and their comfort, but not run out and spend lots of money on audio type of like)...whereas another friend well he just pisses me off and practically threw my Ety's to the side, literally. So if there is "audiophile" snobbery, than there is very much "you wasted your money" snobbery. Also it is VERY hard to sometimes just show some people any decent speaker or can and get them to appreciate it when they are still focused on price and very popular consumer brand-naming.

So I will CONTINUE to advise others that based on my experience with my friends, I don't particularly feel the need to show and tell all the time with my Ety's also given their hygienic nature. But the amount of foam tips I have has certainly decreased and I sure don't use em. Course it depends on the age group of course...but my friends who are of younger crowd certainly are stubborn to the ideas of hi-fi.

 

[e-r0ck]

Yeah, even when I tell epople how much I spent on my V6's (a bargain in the mind of many... no, all the people on this board) they go nuts. Yet they spend hundreds of dolalrs on car stereo systems. I dunno, if you ask me, I spend more time sittin on my ass, walkin, riding the bus, flying, or sitting than I do driving. Maybe thats just me though.

 

[Tim D]

recounted dialogue of criticisms of my entire and budget audio rack by my friend.

A. "Why do you have so many components when you could have just gotten a cheap receiver...why a seperate tuner, amp, and a silly switchbox??"

B. "Because cheap receivers I've tried aren't that great...the one I got Sony A/V receiver I got downstairs is probably not that cheap but doesn't sound very good"

A. "How does it not sound as good? Lol you could have gotten more watts as well!"

B. "Well for one its totally noisy and adds hiss, and more watts isn't everything"

A. "Dood your stupid, just get Monster Cables, they totally get rid of the hiss...it worked for my friend".

-----

Lol...however on another note when he visited another time and I was playing stuff he was wondering why my stereo system sounded somehow "holographic" or "surround" like. Still however, I don't think I would ever go out of my way to prosteltize hi-fi sound. In fact I really don't care about OTHER peoples enjoyment of music...only mine...strange thought really. I'm not one to even bring up HI-FI with friends...this is the unfortunate side-effect of not getting "virtually invisible" setups like Bose. Actually if I got Bose some would probably say "cool, you have Bose...it sounds good".

 

[thomas]

Quote:

he was wondering why my stereo system sounded somehow "holographic" or "surround" like.

lol, whenever my friends try out my Grados or e888s, the comment i hear every time is "wow, these things are surround sond!"... dunno why they say that, as neither headphone has any soundstage...

Most people are quite impressed with the sound of my Grados, though none of them know how expensive they are.... I haven't even shown anyone my HD-600s, i kind of feed bad as they cost much more than any of my friend's entire systems...

i agree with most of the things said by tuberoller and carlos- building a good sounding system takes a lot of time and money, and most people aren't intersted enough to do so... Companies like Bose offer them good sound without any hassle, simply unpack the box and you have good sound... Of course you can get better sound for less money by spending time reading up on audio magazines, reading online reviews/forums, listening to dozens of componants, and searching for the best prices (not to mention DIY and tweeks), but most people simply have different intersts...

I'm sure most computer geeks laugh at people that buy computers from big manufacutres like dell, compaq, apple... Or car enthusiests that will tell you they can get better performance from a honda prelude with lots of aftermarket parts than any production car... etc...

 

[jlo mein]

Being a newbie fresh off the block i'll try and put in my perspective.

The reason why sooo many ppl buy all the streetstyles and other mass market stuff is because WE DON'T KNOW BETTER. We are UNEDUCATED. Thats the bottom line. All these products (grados, akg, beyer, ety, etc), we have never ever heard of in our lives. We don't even know they exist. We only know what we see on the streets, the media, and in super electronic stores. We are taught that sony vj's are the pinnacle of sound. We are taught that streetstyles are the best portable phones ever.

I mean, all these products that hifi-ers get have like NO marketing at all practically. Thats why no one ever heres of them, and thinks that sony is surpreme. I only found head-fi by mistake, which was a miracle. Other ppl aren't so lucky. So by all means, if you can help just one person see the light, just one, DO IT.

Seriously, you don't know how thankful i am that i found this site. I would be on my way to a Canadian circuit city equilvelent right now to buy some silver sony 700's, if i wasn't told that the market is A LOT larger than i had ever imagined. So if a friend comes over and starts questioning your huge senn 600 setup, don't hold your nose high to him, talk to him on HIS level and tell the truth.

 

[Odin]

It's true that majority of people care less about how their system sound like. I have a friend using the streetstyles, and I told him to get some better headphones, I didn't really say the streetstyles are crappy just not to hurt his feelings, but he told ME that "I know they sound crappy, but I don't care" Well then, what can I say? Not a lot of people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a pair of cans. Besides, those who spent hundreds on speakers, well they don't even know the existence of hi-end headphones, moreover, these people aren't looking for hi-fi sound, all they want is something that plays their music loud, it's sad to say it, but it's true, they actually judge their equipment by how loud it can go. Like one of my friends, he has one of those Sony mini-system deck, and he believes that it's the best sound in the world! That killed me, everytime he ask me stuff about sound, or music, or anything, I just say, "Yeah, their ok" no matter what it is. Just like what we said, if it sounds good to your ears, then it sounds good to you, that's your opinion. He heard my Grados before, he said it sounded excellent, yet he won't spend that much money on buying them. It's sad to see how Bose is making money on the mass consumer by their over-rated products. But it's true that their products can satisfy 90% of the population. People that expect hi-fi sound are a minority, and since nobody's willing to buy it, the demand of the hi-fi product increases, then less people buys it, it's all a cycle. The Bose example is just like Sony, Sony has been the most successful electronic corporation, is it because they make the best out of everything? No, but they do have this brand name to ensure people that they build quality products, but not the best out there.
Well, I believe that people will demand more out of their music now. Since there's the explosion of the internet usage, researching on buying a product is easier. That's how I found my Grados. And today we see on the commercial saying "Crystal clear picture, digital sound" That means people are starting to be aware of the quality of their a/v products. It would start from the "daddy" class first, then it's progressively hit the "youngters" class, in that time, we'll have a happy view on the street where everyone's wearing Grados!!!!