[Meyvn]

Airport Express (Toslink) - Zhaolu 2.0 (XLR out) - two separate unbalanced amps (RCA in) running one channel each.

Balanced? Yes? No? If no, why not?

 

[daggerlee]

I think the amp has to be balanced as well?

http://www.headphone.com/products/headphones/balanced/

 

[Hello]

Assuming you have the cables hooked up properly, you can make a balanced system with a balanced source and two 'unbalanced' amps.

 

[Meyvn]

Thanks; that's what I'm getting at. Would these cables be defined as hooked up properly for balanced operation?

 

[Borat]

I know the Zhalou has XLR outputs, but is the source truly balanced?

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat I know the Zhalou has XLR outputs, but is the source truly balanced?

It's not truly balanced.

 

[Borat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit It's not truly balanced.

Can you explain to me how you determined that? Thanks.

 

[grawk]

If you wired them such that XLR->2 rcas (+/gd, -/gd), it would be balanced. Except probably not matched.

 

[Kees]

Not balanced. Because you lose the inverse signal when you convert from XLR to RCA. You replace it by "grounds" in your headphone amp. In this setp you have seperate grounds for each channel to you phones (which is a small improvement) and a bit of extra power, but no inverse signal. The "push-pull" effect from having the signal in the signal-lead and he inverse signal in the grounds lead to each driver will not be there....
I know there is a lot of discussion and misunderstanding about this subject. Also because it is a bit different from the balanced ic's you use between other components: then you actually use TREE leads per channel: signal, inverse signal AND grounds. In that fashion there is less chance of distortion, especially in longer runs.
Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Borat]

So you should not consider using the Zhaolu DAC as your source to connect to a balanced amplifier using the XLR outputs? Why even have the XLR outs then?

 

[Kees]

Using a balanced ic between your DAC and (balanced) amp will cause a (far) better signal between DAC and amp. A balanced amp usually just means it has balanced INPUT. There is usualy no such thing as balanced OUTPUT from a (power or integrated) amp (the amp that drives speakers). EXCEPT when it was introduced for HEADPHONE amps. Headphone amps are like integrated amps, they drive speakers. But in headfi there is an extended kind of balanced drive. In that setup you need a balanced OUTPUT from your amp to be able to forward the "inverted signal" to the driver. The "grounds lead" is used for this. (that is why you need a headphone cable with 2 leads per channel, and cannot use the commonly used 3 lead cables, which share the "grounds" lead for both channels). Now, if you don't have a balanced source and a balanced connection to a balanced amp, you won't have an "inverse signal" to forward....
UNLESS (to make it a bit more complicated, but maybe it is an option for some) you have a fully balanced PRE-AMP (balanced input and output). This amp will actually produce the inverse signal for its outputs (that are supposed to go to a power amp). BUT if the impedance and voltage swing is ok (most are) you can actually recable your headphones with FEMALE XLR's and run them balanced from your pre amp....(Iron_Dreamer did a similar trick once with the balanced output from his DAC1).
I know it is confusing, it took me a lot of time to figure it out. This mod worked for me and my HD650's.
Hope this helps a bit more.

 

[Hello]

gerG is one head-fi member who has used a balanced source and two unbalanced amps to create a balanced system. You may find the discussion interesting: [click me]

 

[Teerawit]

I don't consider the Zhaolu "truly" balanced because it has opamps to create a balanced signal from a single-ended signal. If it were "truly" balanced, the signal would be balanced all the way back to the DAC chips.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit I don't consider the Zhaolu "truly" balanced because it has opamps to create a balanced signal from a single-ended signal. If it were "truly" balanced, the signal would be balanced all the way back to the DAC chips.

Has this ever been verified?

I personally don't really care if it is or isn't a truly balanced signal. There's a lot of things in the signal path that affect the quality. The end results may still sound satisfactory.

 

[2426]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hello gerG is one head-fi member who has used a balanced source and two unbalanced amps to create a balanced system. You may find the discussion interesting: [click me]

This is what I thought as well. Can't any amp be balanced, as long as you have a balanced source, and two of the same amps?

(I don't know much about this subject, so please correct me if I'm wrong)