Is this normal behaviour for dacs?

[Ghoostknight]

what makes comparisons here usually hard is the fact that you have turn it all the way up BUT... if you turn volume slowly higher i can kinda convince myself to actually hear the unlinearity going towards full volume (i kinda thought before that my speakers just give in, but this is only partly true imo)

but of course you can also compensate the volume differences with a preamp or amplifier and do a level matched comparison... it just takes more time to switch back and forth...

 

[castleofargh]

https://quillbot.com/blog/false-cause-fallacy/

 

[bigshot]

Are you level matching? You shouldn’t touch the volume at all

 

[Ghoostknight]

Are you level matching? You shouldn’t touch the volume at all

dude i have to reduce volume to test this how am i supposed to not touch volume at all?

whatever... for me its clear you guys can keep arguing here

i just opened this thread here in sound science since i mainly wanted to know whether this is usual behaviour for dacs, which apparantely is the case, of course everything beside that gets nicely denied as usual

 

[bigshot]

You can't accurately compare sound quality unless the levels are identical. When you are sloppy about the controls on your listening test, your results become meaningless. Clean it up and try again.

 

[Ghoostknight]

You can't accurately compare sound quality unless the levels are identical. When you are sloppy about the controls on your listening test, your results become meaningless. Clean it up and try again.

i did level match with pink noise and a db meter to +/- -0.3db ... good enough for me

 

[bigshot]

Very good. Blind?

 

[Whazzzup]

when ever my dac steps out of line, i say bad dac. roll up newspaper tap for emphases

 

[Ghoostknight]

Very good. Blind?

no not yet, i usually dont like to bother other people todo excessive testing maybe we can do it together once i made some samples

 

[Ghoostknight]

One more thing... could someone explain why a dynamic range measurement shows less dynamic range then there actually is? (see the multitone test with 115db)

i know other dacs show even more in the multitone test but i cant wrap my head around why multitone shows 115db and the DR measurement 95db

 

[Ghoostknight]

Is the dynamic range measurement related to the SINAD measurement?

in theory, with my proposed fix of harmonic distortion (-10db gain which ends up with -25db harmonic distortion) also the sinad value should be improved i think

 

[Ghoostknight]

as i see it my measurements clearly show that there is 115db of SFDR between 20hz and 30khz with gain at -10db

 

[gregorio]

because i differentiate noise an harmonic distortion...

Again with a playback level of 85dBSPL the IMD of the Topping at 0dBFS (where it rises) would be at -10dBSPL. Even a child with perfect hearing in a world class anechoic chamber cannot hear anything at -10dBSPL but you apparently are superhuman, because not only can you hear that -10dBSPL IMD but you can still hear and actually differentiate it in the presence of noise that’s about 100x louder! And what evidence do you have for being this superhuman? Nothing at all, just repeated claims you can hear/differentiate it and that “it just is” audible in a sighted test where:

if you turn volume slowly higher i can kinda convince myself to actually hear the unlinearity going towards full volume

So you’re actually deliberately trying to cause placebo/perceptual error during your sighted testing, that’s just hilarious! And, if that’s not ridiculous enough, it is vaguely possible that you might actually hear IMD/rising IMD when “going towards full volume”. However, that would have nothing to do with the DAC but the fact that your amp and speaker combination is probably producing around 100x more IMD than your DAC. It’s hard to imagine how your testing/conclusion methodology could be any worse!!

i plan todo a levelmatched youtube comparison with this in the future, imo this is the best way to tell (for others)

A hint for the future if you don’t want to be continuously called a troll: Do a proper double blind test and by proper I mean make sure you’re actually testing the DAC’s IMD and not the IMD produced by your amp/speakers and, do that BEFORE you make ridiculous BS claims of effectively being superhuman!

G

 

[castleofargh]

Again just finally paying close attention to the idea of cause and effect would turn his world upside down. I can’t think of someone being a more consistent example of mistaking correlation with causation.
The link in my last post is what he most needs to consider.

 

[Ghoostknight]

So you’re actually deliberately trying to cause placebo/perceptual error during your sighted testing, that’s just hilarious! And, if that’s not ridiculous enough, it is vaguely possible that you might actually hear IMD/rising IMD when “going towards full volume”. However, that would have nothing to do with the DAC but the fact that your amp and speaker combination is probably producing around 100x more IMD than your DAC. It’s hard to imagine how your testing/conclusion methodology could be any worse!!

thats what i said myself .... it still made a difference, you can think of it as you want, i dont care
i didnt test this only once, that was also the reason why i did (for once honestly) a level matched comparison

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I guess i have answer the DR range question myself.... its some more BS

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i also love the fact objectivists keep arguing that everything is inaudible but you guys still care for measurements lol, thats some logic i dont have to understand...

As i started out i still cared for this, the topping d10 was my first standalone dac a few years ago as i was going by amirs recommendation, but the difference between it and the BLA interface is so obvious... i just feel sorry for the people that cant trust their ears

some objectivists should tell people how they can improve performance for free instead (by reducing gain), but funny enough i never saw it mentioned "anywhere"