Is there a reason the "don't request paypal gift/personal" rule isn't even remotely enforced?

[Brooko]

I'm literally just trying to have a civilized discussion here and explain my viewpoints but it seems I've only attracted children thus far and now I'm actually pissed off. The first guy basically just says "these are the rules, follow them or leave" LOL. Real helpful..especially in a thread that started because THE RULE IS NOT BEING ENFORCED. I mean really, look at the for sale forums...I personally haven't sold anything on here in almost a decade...so I really am just trying to have a discussion here. Something I now regret...

So was I (trying to have a civilised conversation). Perhaps a little background info might help. I was a Mod on this board, and we tried to enforce the rule as much as possible. But with literally thousands of posts every day and very few volunteer Moderators, unless the FS posts were reported, we wouldn't have a hope in Hades of actually finding them. Usually the only time they were reported was when it was too late - dispute had broken out, and the party who had agreed with the option of "gift" was invariably out of pocket with no recourse. And I'd guess about 70-80% of the disputes we ended up dealing with was because people had been offered and accepted the "gift" option. Whenever something turns sour - the party with the issue is left stranded.

The second problem is that the FS forum used to be for the members of the audio forum here to buy and sell goods. IE members buying/selling/trading were actively participating in the forums. Over time, Head-Fi almost seemed to be come a trading post with a forum as an afterthought. Personally I'd make the rules a lot tougher - must be here certain amount of time, must be an active member etc.

Lastly, I can assure you I'm not a child. Mine are nearly grown now and off to varsity soon I tried to explain in my first post why the rules were there - to which you essentially replied 'well this is what I always do - so go jump'. To which I replied with the rules of the forum. You can get more info here.
Buy, Sell and Trade Rules (Updated June 2017)
Classifieds Posting Guide (Updated June 2017)
Scam Warnings! Important Reading! (Updated August 2016)

They're at the top of all the FS forums, and they're pretty clear. The point I was trying to make - is if you want to sell gear, and you insist on using the gift option - then go do it on another site. The rules here are pretty clear. Personally I'd never deal with someone who insists on gift, and especially if I didn't know them.

As far as the signature goes. I'm in NZ. We have very strict gun laws (thank goodness!!), and while I've had plenty of packages delivered while I'm mot home, anything with high value I insist on sig required (same when I send). Why? because that way I get proof of delivery. If something goes wrong (eg the package goes missing), I have legal recourse. And in NZ - if they can't make the delivery, they take it back to the depot and notify you so that you can make alternate arrangements (deliver somewhere else, or you can pick up). Its all ID controlled, and works really well.

I'd never send 1K worth of gear with gift option, no sig etc. Asking for trouble and breaking multiple rules - including those of Paypal.

If you have an issue here - maybe talk to Jude, Joe or Brian (the Admins). I doubt you'll see anything changed though. Paypal Gift just creates to many opportunities for someone to rip off someone else.

 

[CoryGillmore]

So was I (trying to have a civilised conversation). Perhaps a little background info might help. I was a Mod on this board, and we tried to enforce the rule as much as possible. But with literally thousands of posts every day and very few volunteer Moderators, unless the FS posts were reported, we wouldn't have a hope in Hades of actually finding them. Usually the only time they were reported was when it was too late - dispute had broken out, and the party who had agreed with the option of "gift" was invariably out of pocket with no recourse. And I'd guess about 70-80% of the disputes we ended up dealing with was because people had been offered and accepted the "gift" option. Whenever something turns sour - the party with the issue is left stranded.

The second problem is that the FS forum used to be for the members of the audio forum here to buy and sell goods. IE members buying/selling/trading were actively participating in the forums. Over time, Head-Fi almost seemed to be come a trading post with a forum as an afterthought. Personally I'd make the rules a lot tougher - must be here certain amount of time, must be an active member etc.

Lastly, I can assure you I'm not a child. Mine are nearly grown now and off to varsity soon I tried to explain in my first post why the rules were there - to which you essentially replied 'well this is what I always do - so go jump'. To which I replied with the rules of the forum. You can get more info here.
Buy, Sell and Trade Rules (Updated June 2017)
Classifieds Posting Guide (Updated June 2017)
Scam Warnings! Important Reading! (Updated August 2016)

They're at the top of all the FS forums, and they're pretty clear. The point I was trying to make - is if you want to sell gear, and you insist on using the gift option - then go do it on another site. The rules here are pretty clear. Personally I'd never deal with someone who insists on gift, and especially if I didn't know them.

As far as the signature goes. I'm in NZ. We have very strict gun laws (thank goodness!!), and while I've had plenty of packages delivered while I'm mot home, anything with high value I insist on sig required (same when I send). Why? because that way I get proof of delivery. If something goes wrong (eg the package goes missing), I have legal recourse. And in NZ - if they can't make the delivery, they take it back to the depot and notify you so that you can make alternate arrangements (deliver somewhere else, or you can pick up). Its all ID controlled, and works really well.

I'd never send 1K worth of gear with gift option, no sig etc. Asking for trouble and breaking multiple rules - including those of Paypal.

If you have an issue here - maybe talk to Jude, Joe or Brian (the Admins). I doubt you'll see anything changed though. Paypal Gift just creates to many opportunities for someone to rip off someone else.

You're right man, you were actually pretty helpful, dude just pissed me off is all. Thanks man, and apologies.

EDIT: It's worth noting that I've never sold or bought anything on here that costs more than a few hundred bucks. Maybe I'd feel differently if I were spending some real money, ya know? As a matter of fact it's kinda silly on my part to be paranoid about selling someone an item that's only a few hundred bucks. When logic would tell you that if someone is going to go through the trouble of ripping someone off, they're more likely to do it on a TOTL expensive item rather than a used HD650 or a $300 DAP. You know what I mean?

That being said, I'm sure these forums have seen their fair share of people getting ripped off on "cheaper" items.

You have any horror stories to share from your time as a mod? IE that time someone got ripped off on an Orpheus sale or something similar?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Are you drunk or something? Not anywhere in this rambling nonsense did you even come close to anything resembling a point. What was that about meeting someone to have them sign for a package? Do you even know how shipping works?

My point is if they're either going to meet you or pick it up at the PO or somehow are at home to receive it you better come up with something other than a brick (or anything to the other end of the weight scale) so he doesn't go "well this package feels funny" and open it right then and there.

The first guy basically just says "these are the rules, follow them or leave" LOL. Real helpful..especially in a thread that started because THE RULE IS NOT BEING ENFORCED. I mean really, look at the for sale forums...I personally haven't sold anything on here in almost a decade...so I really am just trying to have a discussion here. Something I now regret...

And how many time have you been told that they actually are being enforced, which is why people get their money back either way. I even discussed that. Sure, in some cases, the dishonest guy gets his money back, but for the majority of cases, the honest guys get their money back for legitimate reasons, instead of relying on the goodness of the PP Gift receiver's heart.

I mean really, look at the for sale forums...I personally haven't sold anything on here in almost a decade...so I really am just trying to have a discussion here. Something I now regret...

So let me get this straight.

You haven't transacted in almost a decade, you raise a point about a potential problem (fair enough) but dismiss all the reasons for the rules when you haven't actually engaged in the activity to understand the actual risks that statistically had been a problem before, and your idea of "discussion" is to dismiss those experience while having practically zero yourself and calling everyone else pointing these out as "children?"

 

[Brooko]

You have any horror stories to share from your time as a mod? IE that time someone got ripped off on an Orpheus sale or something similar?

Unfortunately quite a few stories of woe - some real scammers and repeat offending under different names (thankfully few and far between though). But can’t really discuss here - the good news is that during my time, I can’t think of anyone who got ripped off when using PayPal properly.

I got caught once for USD 300. Own fault - trying to save a few bucks and lost far more. Now I always make sure I’m protected.