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Is there a reason the "don't request paypal gift/personal" rule isn't even remotely enforced?

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  1. SomeGuyDude
    Like, it's in huge red text but listing after listing after listing will say things like "buyer pays shipping/fees unless gift" or offering a discount if it's a paypal gift. Unless people are gonna claim that it's technically not a request, which is BS, it's just weird how zero effort goes into enforcing that rule.
     
    cardeli22 and Hifiearspeakers like this.
  2. mesaboogie
    I would agree but then people that use gift get what they asking for. I am just more perplexed people cannot just do the math... $950 +3%. ...Fantastic, a seller that lacks basic math skills or motivation to open a calculator app.
     
    ProtegeManiac likes this.
  3. SomeGuyDude
    That's not the issue.

    PP gift means there's no buyer protection. If you do gift, the person who sold the headphones can just run off with the money because the exchange wasn't nominally for any goods or services.
     
    pstickne and Hifiearspeakers like this.
  4. ProtegeManiac Contributor
    I think what he meant was that people should do the math and realize how small the PayPal fee is compared to saying goodbye to the cash.
     
    trellus likes this.
  5. Brooko Contributor
    Speaking as an ex Mod - unless the posts in the FS are flagged, they’ll never get noticed. When I was moderating we’d always edit the posts and give people friendly warnings. But someone had to flag them first to get our attention
     
    ScubaMan2017 and WoodyLuvr like this.
  6. Ross H
    In addition to violating Paypal's terms of service and being a risk for the buyer, accepting Paypal Gift or Friends and Family payments (when goods are changing hands) can be bad for sellers as well.

    On another forum, a member was coordinating and accepting payments for a group buy. Some buyers thought that they would be nice and send the payment as Gift or F&F. Paypal locked the account until the person accepting the payments could prove that these were actually gifts and not purchases. I don't know how that got resolved, I don't how one would explain strangers in another part of the country sending money for nothing.

    Although Paypal might have looked into the above example because of multiple Gift or F&F payments, I've also had my account locked for no good reason (Gift or F&F not used); it may be that Paypal randomly checks some transactions and looks into them further if any look remotely suspicious. I had to jump though some hoops to get my account unlocked which reminded me that we are using their service and we agreed to the terms when we signed up so Paypal is within their rights to make sure we comply with those terms.

    At the end of the day, as already mentioned here, it's a small fee that can easily be folded into the asking price - I feel that it's a small price to pay for the security and convenience that Paypal offers.
     
    pstickne likes this.
  7. SomeGuyDude
    Yes I'm aware of all of that, the point it's a forum rule that never gets enforced.
     
    cardeli22 and Hifiearspeakers like this.
  8. ProtegeManiac Contributor
    A mod already explained it to you. They're not full time paid moderators who can check into each thread for eight hours every day. Forum users themselves should click "Report" on the lower left of each ad that has that so they'd be aware of it. Forum moderators barely even post replies in threads.

    HF_25.jpg


    Basically, it's like expecting police to do something without calling 911. Well, OK, drug and gang units have undercover cops working these cases, but these people are getting paid to do that job. Most forum moderators aren't.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    PaganDL likes this.
  9. CoryGillmore
    Sorry for the thread necro but I want to talk about this and I was gonna make a thread till I found this. Anyway..

    As a seller, I ONLY accept payments with gift option. Why? Because I refuse to be vulnerable as a seller. What's to stop a buyer with buyer protections from claiming I sent them an empty box with nothing in it? How would Paypal resolve that? I don't intend to find out the hard way. Though I am genuinely curious if someone knows.

    As a buyer of many things on head-fi, I cannot remember a single time where I sent money any other way than gift. Even when the seller didn't hint at it. I also don't just buy from anyone. Thankfully, as a result of PP gift, I don't have to keep that reservation when it comes to selling. I'll take a PP gift payment from literally anyone and be as chill as can be about it.
     
  10. Brooko Contributor
    1. You're violating Paypal's terms and conditions by doing so. You're also violating this forum's rules.
    2. You remove all protection for buyer and seller.

    If you have proof of delivery, and proof of condition of goods, Paypal will action in your favour.

    As a seller - take pics of the good before you send them (including how packaged). Send tracked and sig required. The protection is there for all parties. Using gift removes all protection.
     
    pstickne, PaganDL, cardeli22 and 2 others like this.
  11. CoryGillmore
    This tells me: if you want to send someone a brick in place of the LCD4 they actually paid for, just take a pic of the LCD4 in the box before you pack up their brick and send it. Also: have said victim sign for brick, sit back and profit.

    What's to stop a seller from doing this? What's to stop a buyer with buyer protections from saying this is what I did?

    People are shady man. Ask Amazon and the headaches they go through with their exceptional pro-consumer return policy, where people box up cheap items and send in the box of the expensive item they purchased.

    I expect to be in a bit of a vulnerable position when buying things on internet forums and I accepted that long ago. I have not yet accepted that I need to be vulnerable as a seller too. And as of now, the only true seller protection I can think of is by only accepting PP gift.

    As a buyer, I ALWAYS request the seller to send USPS with NO signature required. Now this may come off as shady to an apprehensive seller, IF I hadn't already sent my payment as a gift. The reason for this is USPS/FedEx/UPS runs early at my house, while I'm at work and it's not uncommon for me to work 6 days a week. Meaning if I want my item as soon as possible (and who doesn't want their item ASAP?), it HAS to be sitting on my front porch when I get home from work. Thankfully I live in the country, in Mississippi, where our gun laws and castle doctrine make it exceptionally risky to go up on someone's front porch with the intent of stealing. And what do you know? We don't have that problem where I live :wink:
     
  12. Brooko Contributor
    So because of the one or two who might be shady, you want to break the whole system down and remove all protections from anyone else? Yep thats logical :rolling_eyes:

    Its simple.
    1. The rules are there for everyone's protection
    2. If you choose not to follow the rules - go buy/trade on other sites
     
  13. CoryGillmore
    I think I've done a good job of illustrating that it's not simple at all. But yeah good talk
     
  14. ProtegeManiac Contributor
    There's one glaring flaw in your scenario: who's going to sign for a brick? If they're going to go meet you for it to personally sign for it what kind of person wouldn't even open the box, let alone test it for at least 5mins?


    At least there's the possibility of getting the money back for those who are honest, even if in some cases it hits the honest, rather than a near 100% chance of never getting the money back because it was sent as a gift and you're relying on some guy far away to actually send it back.


    It's the same system that also keeps the buyers who receive the crap returns to get their money back.


    People are shady man. Just ask anybody who didn't get their money back after using PP Gift.

    I'm supposed to just trust you? Well, it's a free market. You can go use another platform and I can just not buy from you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2019
    PaganDL likes this.
  15. CoryGillmore
    I'm literally just trying to have a civilized discussion here and explain my viewpoints but it seems I've only attracted children thus far and now I'm actually pissed off. The first guy basically just says "these are the rules, follow them or leave" LOL. Real helpful..especially in a thread that started because THE RULE IS NOT BEING ENFORCED. I mean really, look at the for sale forums...I personally haven't sold anything on here in almost a decade...so I really am just trying to have a discussion here. Something I now regret...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2019
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