[dura]

Quote:

edit: "speaker-like" has always been way too broad for me to understand, there are 88db (in)efficient speakers that need 200 watt monos to drive properly and can still be lacking articuation and speed, and then there are 103db EFFICIENT horns that sound accurate, intimate, and plenty loud on 2 watt SET amps. I guess what im after is efficiency, im currently trying to build a 2ch rig around a set of 101db ZU Druids.

Well formulated, I also like your initial post, recognisable problem.
I've got Dynaudio speakers; insensitve but very good tonality, not too much PRaT.
My Shure E4s are the other way around; not a perfect tonal balance, but the music flows like it was intended.
I do not know why, but sometimes it seems to me we have to choose between hard-to-drive tonal correctness or speed and musicality.
I also noticed more PRaT seems to coincidence with a certain mid/mid-high forwardness.
Why?

 

[euclid]

i really like the sonic characteristic of my shure e4 too, . they cant compete with home headphones in soundstage or overall "presence" but i wonder if any IEM would.

i might have to hear the sony sa5000 and work from there, impressions ive read seem to be closest to what im trying to describe, save the hp1000 which i dont think i will get my hands on.

 

[CookieFactory]

IMO The AKG 701s are what the Senn 650s should've been.

 

[lan]

To me the HD650s weaknesses are

- too much mid bass
- not enough air
- not enough soundstage
- that which you mention already. the attack speed is not well defined.

A better source and amp will alleviate some of this but I personally would not rather spend too much money trying to make the headphone that way. That's why I rather use a headphone which is closer to ones' goal.

 

[euclid]

i really think this comes down to a power handling issue. at the risk of hearing damage i have been using some hardrock and metal for experimentation. when i play it at normal listening levels that i can handle(still really loud) the instruments and overall detail during complex passages is constantly in competition for space and presence. i can blast these headphones to levels that i cant take for more than about 5 seconds, the highs just get way too harsh, but still NO distortion at all in the mids and lows, and interestingly enough the stage is wide open with every nuance present and every sound defined and spacially placeable in 3 dimensions.

in my researching Zu Druid speakers (crossover-less single 10" driver with a seperate super tweeter), ive read alot about these 101db efficency speakers needing serious break in time with high power SS amps and complex music b.c the driver is so stiff and the tolerance of the motor is so tight that low power will just not force the movement required for driver break-in, so even after like 1000 hours on low power gear they may NEVER tonally or dimensionally develop.

so my final hope for these senns (which probibly have well over 500 hours on them at normal listning levels) is that maybe after some aggressive burn-in under a pile of blankets they start loosening up and gain some agility. i cant stress it enough, i like the elements of the sound but i think they are lazy, maybe they just demand more power to open up, if it comes down to putting the foam back to tame the highs maybe they will be bearable at levels that i used to think were too high.

 

[Dentomat]

They appear to be "slow" due to their recessed high frequencies, which are "fast". This phenomenom is probably(!) exaggerated by the amplifier.
That said, I don´t want to defend the 650´s, I just want help to make clear what´s wrong with them.
But I wouldn´t try to adjust it´s characteristics by changing amp or source, or try to "force" them to sound good by cranking up the volume. The 880s (2006 model) and the 701s should easily meet your exspectations.