[euclid]

im trying to solidfy what i dont like about these headphones, so i can find a pair that compliments them.

basically after owning them for over a year ive only established two constants... remove the foam, and they need ALOT of volume to sound dynamic, considering the open design this can be a problem. when i want to relax and listen late at night at low volume they are muddied and life-less

so whats the area that lacks? tonally they sound very acurate, midrange is not too colored(or clinical), good note decay, full articulated bass, not peaky, no glare, awesome soundstage. but when i combine all these good characteristics the final sound just lacks "attack"... is the weakness in the initial milisecond of attack speed that prevents the sound from coming forward and gaining focus at start? this definately gets better with volume but my ears can only handle so much. can the stock cable be at fault? is it just a product of the high impedance design?

think of ringing a large bell with a hammer, when you HIT it initally its going to be LOUD and forward for only a few miliseconds the hammer is in contact, and then from that start it will trail off in decay. i think its the intial HIT that im missing in the hd-650. what cans will bring it back?

 

[TheMarsVolta]

What are you amping the 650's with? When you removed the foam covering, what did you replace it with?

 

[003]

What is your source?

 

[Epicurean]

I agree that the hd650s sound best at loud volumes. Actually I find them one of the best I've heard for rock & metal when listening at loud volumes.

 

[euclid]

Meridian 596 > Grover UR6/7 > Ray Samuels HR-2

i didnt replace the foam with anything, i actually popped the screens out and put the foam between the screens and and drivers, it helps to lower outside noise, tightens up the sound a bit but doesnt sound honky or sacrifice the size of the stage like a closed design on these 650s would.

do people that own some high end headphones along with the hd650 feel the same about the overall sound or am i giving the hd650 too much credit outright?

 

[003]

Take the foams out of the mix

 

[euclid]

the foam was out of the mix

i put it back behind the grills a few months ago to gain some impact, when i put my hands over the grills the sound becomes very forward but the tone and soundstage is horrible.

btw: i assume your the same 003 from XS, you just responded to my L2000c thread. ive seen you around DFI-street too, seems we have parallel taste.

 

[003]

Yeah, thats me. I knew your name sounded familier

Anyway mabey you just don't like the sennheiser sound? Have you tried AKG, beyer and grado at all?

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid im trying to solidfy what i dont like about these headphones, so i can find a pair that compliments them. basically after owning them for over a year ive only established two constants... remove the foam, and they need ALOT of volume to sound dynamic, considering the open design this can be a problem. when i want to relax and listen late at night at low volume they are muddied and life-less so whats the area that lacks? tonally they sound very acurate, midrange is not too colored(or clinical), good note decay, full articulated bass, not peaky, no glare, awesome soundstage. but when i combine all these good characteristics the final sound just lacks "attack"... is the weakness in the initial milisecond of attack speed that prevents the sound from coming forward and gaining focus at start? this definately gets better with volume but my ears can only handle so much. can the stock cable be at fault? is it just a product of the high impedance design? think of ringing a large bell with a hammer, when you HIT it initally its going to be LOUD and forward for only a few miliseconds the hammer is in contact, and then from that start it will trail off in decay. i think its the intial HIT that im missing in the hd-650. what cans will bring it back?

Not sure you can say there have a weakness. There are other headphones that do certain things better. Personally I find more detail in SA5000s and UE-10s. Also the SA5000s bass goes alittle deeper but isn't as full. RS-1s I find better on live performances and up front presentation.

 

[robm321]

To me yes the speed is probably the biggest downside. Just not engaging and dare I say boring. But very accurate (the 600 - 650 has too much bass). Then someone always mentions that if you think it's slow you don't have a good amp, etc. Why not just admit it.

Other than that, they are very speaker like in their presentation and reproduce texture well. It depends what's important to you. I just can't understand why everyone is so taken by them.

 

[euclid]

thats sort of whats bothering me about it, i do like the sound but they are falling short in impact, or even intimacy. i wonder if its there and being lost on something in my setup or if i will always be chasing my tail trying to make the hd650 perform how i want them to sound.

i know there are people here who have a borderline hatred for senn headphones but i always dismissed it as system synergy, there are others who swear by them even after owning much more expensive headphones. but i am full SS with decent upstream and they still feel sluggish. ive owned the grado 325i but i thought they performed like little children in comparison to the senns.

time to start reading up on the k701 i guess, there doesnt seem like much else aside from AT which i cant afford right now.

edit: "speaker-like" has always been way too broad for me to understand, there are 88db (in)efficient speakers that need 200 watt monos to drive properly and can still be lacking articuation and speed, and then there are 103db EFFICIENT horns that sound accurate, intimate, and plenty loud on 2 watt SET amps. i guess what im after is efficiency, im currently trying to build a 2ch rig around a set of 101db ZU Druids.

SO WHATS THE HEADPHONE EQUIVALENT?!, a fast, punchy, uncolored, easy to drive can thats not too bright and can convey a decent soundstage and transparant imaging. does it even exist? maybe that recommendation will guide me in the right direction, then i can know for sure if hope is lost on the senn camp

 

[jjcha]

Better amps and wiring and removing the foam all helps, but at the end of the day the HD650 is the HD650. Well, except with a balanced Singlepower or gnarely 300B SET amp.

I find my Dynamight drives the balanced HD650 fine technically, but it will never be as fast on the attack as most of my other headphones.

Trust your own ears.

Best,

-Jason

 

[Skylab]

There is a kind of a suckout at about 5kHz, along with a overall gently declining response to the HD650. Some don't like this.

OTOH, the AKG 701 has a fairly noticable peak between 6-8 kHz, which will give it a very different sound. And the Grado 325 has several huge peaks in the lower and mid treble.

These headphones all should and do sound quite different, and will appeal to different people as a result. If you don't like the HD650, who cares that other people do?

 

[Solude]

Senn 650 do need a great amp to wake up. But then that doesn't mean mega $$$, the HeadAmp Lite is a great amp and modestly priced. That said if your source is flat or slow or uninvolving then the Senn 650 won't turn it around like the Grado RS1 will.

What it is missing is a bump in the 7KHz and up region which is what gives it it's distance. But if you boost the 7KHz+ you get your speed and move closer but lose fullness and weight. Catch 22. The AKG 701 suffers from this. They boosted the treble energy to reach a more neutral sound while also having more bass energy but the treble makes the listener think the bass is thinner when its quantively more than the Senn 650. Joys of the ear

 

[fierce_freak]

I think the HD650 would be about my favorite headphone if it could gain a good dose of speed and prat.