[HippieTom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif No. Something higher quality/larger picture or ideally vector, so I can place earth next to the largest sun (in scale)

Do i really have to take pics with my own camera and get out of my sofa?
I dont think those pics exists. Have too be extremely big to ever spot the earth next to the biggest stars..?..

 

[iriverdude]

That's why I said vectors. Not demanding on hardware or require stupidly large jpeg's. No camera required.

 

[Fido2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makenshi /img/forum/go_quote.gif infinity is just a concept. anything that's not quantitative (love, joy, information, improvement) can be described as infinite. universe could fit into one of those but my belief in relativity leads me to believe otherwise

If nothing is eternal then basically one would be saying that this universe and all in it sprang from nothing. Which as any thinking person would acknowledge is ridiculous. Nothing cannot produce something. So it stands to reason that something beyond this universe is eternal. Eternal being a state of not being created, no beginning or end that we know of.
If we fail to realize this then rationality is out the window and everything is possible which means what we're talking about right now cannot be rightly understood and everything is meaningless. Can anyone here possibly, without laughing, say that the incredible level of complexity order and design within this universe and within our own bodies just happened along from nothing?

We must acknowledge, I believe, the limits of our minds. We can only comprehend(rather weakly) this space time dimension, this universe in which we find ourselves. We have an ability to acknowledge something else beyond it but trying to grasp infinity or eternity, a dimension or dimensions with no time like ours or whatever is very very difficult. I have seen interviews with high level physicists who struggle and fail to grasp it. Obviously the relativity hero Einstein never got it either.

It is my opinion that the truth is always simple. It's all the hoops we go through to try and explain it away that make the truth "seem" difficult.

But I think the original question was "Is the universe eternal"? I say no. Because science has shown that the universe is expanding and cooling at a pretty much steady rate and when we back this expansion and cooling up, the universe gets more dense , smaller and hotter to the point that approx. 17 billion years ago the universe "exploded" into existence from a minute particle(the big bang theory). So this shows the universe is not eternal. 17 billion years is no where near enough time mathematically for the level of complexity and design we see to have "evolved" all by itself. Now...my question is WHO or WHAT caused that first explosion? Nothing? hardly...

 

[Makenshi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fido2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If nothing is eternal then basically one would be saying that this universe and all in it sprang from nothing. Which as any thinking person would acknowledge is ridiculous.

Funny you should mention that. Originally, Einstein predicted that the universe begin at a point of singularity with a zero diameter and volume. The exemplar black hole if you will. Later, this has been rectified to Planck length to account for the uncertainty principle (10^-35 m). Many, if not most, current scientists accept some variation of the big bang theory at the moment, as you should well know as mentioned in your post. Relativity as a concept is very easy to grasp, actually, provided you unlearn the classical Newtonian model of the universe.

However, this is all null, as I did not mention anything about eternity, simply that infinity is a concept. If you consider time as a concept, then eternity can coexist with my previous statement (though, again, I believe otherwise).

Maybe someone/something caused it. Maybe it just happened. That's another discussion for another time (and frankly quite pointless imo).

 

[milkweg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makenshi /img/forum/go_quote.gif infinity is just a concept. anything that's not quantitative (love, joy, information, improvement) can be described as infinite.

None of that is infinite either. Romantic love has a life span on average of 2 years. Yes, there have been studies done on the life span of romantic love.

 

[Makenshi]

I was talking about the concept of love and joy, not the actual events that stem from them. You can't say, "I have 20 more love for you than you do for me." At least it makes sense in my mind.

 

[milkweg]

OK, love for a son or daughter is usually unconditional and never ending, until you die anyway.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkweg /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, love for a son or daughter is usually unconditional and never ending, until you die anyway.

Even if your son becomes a baby murdering paedophile?

 

[Signal2Noise]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even if your son becomes a baby murdering paedophile?

That's where "usually" comes into play.

 

[Drag0n]

Do you think the Anti-Head-Fi might exist?
And if they both met, Head-Fi and Anti_Head-Fi; What would happen?

 

[Drag0n]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fido2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If nothing is eternal then basically one would be saying that this universe and all in it sprang from nothing. Which as any thinking person would acknowledge is ridiculous. Nothing cannot produce something. So it stands to reason that something beyond this universe is eternal. Eternal being a state of not being created, no beginning or end that we know of. If we fail to realize this then rationality is out the window and everything is possible which means what we're talking about right now cannot be rightly understood and everything is meaningless. Can anyone here possibly, without laughing, say that the incredible level of complexity order and design within this universe and within our own bodies just happened along from nothing? We must acknowledge, I believe, the limits of our minds. We can only comprehend(rather weakly) this space time dimension, this universe in which we find ourselves. We have an ability to acknowledge something else beyond it but trying to grasp infinity or eternity, a dimension or dimensions with no time like ours or whatever is very very difficult. I have seen interviews with high level physicists who struggle and fail to grasp it. Obviously the relativity hero Einstein never got it either. It is my opinion that the truth is always simple. It's all the hoops we go through to try and explain it away that make the truth "seem" difficult. But I think the original question was "Is the universe eternal"? I say no. Because science has shown that the universe is expanding and cooling at a pretty much steady rate and when we back this expansion and cooling up, the universe gets more dense , smaller and hotter to the point that approx. 17 billion years ago the universe "exploded" into existence from a minute particle(the big bang theory). So this shows the universe is not eternal. 17 billion years is no where near enough time mathematically for the level of complexity and design we see to have "evolved" all by itself. Now...my question is WHO or WHAT caused that first explosion? Nothing? hardly...

The world is only about 6000 years old, with another 1000 to go.....but we wont get into that

 

[Fido2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makenshi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Funny you should mention that. Originally, Einstein predicted that the universe begin at a point of singularity with a zero diameter and volume. The exemplar black hole if you will. Later, this has been rectified to Planck length to account for the uncertainty principle (10^-35 m). Many, if not most, current scientists accept some variation of the big bang theory at the moment, as you should well know as mentioned in your post. Relativity as a concept is very easy to grasp, actually, provided you unlearn the classical Newtonian model of the universe. However, this is all null, as I did not mention anything about eternity, simply that infinity is a concept. If you consider time as a concept, then eternity can coexist with my previous statement (though, again, I believe otherwise). Maybe someone/something caused it. Maybe it just happened. That's another discussion for another time (and frankly quite pointless imo).

Pointless? lol...whew...maybe to some it is more entertaining to sit around and dream up theories about things being produced by nothing from nothing, but THAT is pointess IMO.
I have heard rumors about a blackhole something or other but still you gotta wonder....where'd the black hole come from? Oh yeah...it just appeared all by itself outta nothin I guess....
Actually also the terms infinite and eternal are fairly synonymous (just checked me old Websters). Time is a dimension and of this universe only as far as we know...right? I mean has anyone shown that time exists outside of this universe, time as we understand it I mean?

 

[Drag0n]

For some strange reason, i suddenly have a craving for a banana.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

dream up theories

Maths isn't a theory.

 

[ziplock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can we measure the bounds of the universe? Or it just goes on forever?

There are bounds and no bounds.
There are rules and no rules.
The universe is everything and nothing at the same time.
The answers we seek are beyond our comprehension as mortals.

However, it should all make perfect sense after you're dead. But there are no guarantees!

I didn't write the book. It's supposed to be confusing.

Sorry, I can't answer your question(s). Although, trying to answer can be enlightening. It's about the journey, not the destination. Traversing the levels of consciousness is a gift(or curse) of the living.