[AndroidVageta]

It seems that more and more these days "budget" IEM's are becoming more and more competitive with higher-end offerings. Is it possible that high-end IEM's are coming to an end?
 
I say this because it would appear that a lot of these hybrid IEM's are really entering a level never seen before with earbuds that cost less than a few hundred dollars.
 
For instance, I just picked up a pair of Narmoo S1. They have a 10mm + 6mm driver per ear and cost like ~$40 new. Now, they, to my ears, are NEARLY on the same level as my old TF18 6-driver CIEM's (that's a TF10 x 2 made by UM). The bass is there...the mids are about there...only thing that I feel is noticeably lacking slightly would be the upper highs. Other than that the sound stage, clarity, separation, etc really isn't that far off. I mean, for something that cost about $40 new to be on such a close level as something that would cost you ~$600-700 new is, well, DAMN impressive and borderline unbelievable.
 
And those are just a $40 bud! With the introduction of things like T-Peos and Dunu as well as many others...it makes me think that getting HIGH quality sound won't be out of reach for a lot of people much longer. I look at these Narmoo's and it's got me really thinking as to why I would ever want to spend $600-1,000+ on another pair of buds.
 
Maybe my ears deceive but my brain has always had a very strict "this sounds excellent", "this sounds OK", or "this sounds bad" mentality. Buds like the Narmoo instantly gave me a "this sounds excellent" feeling...something I can't even say about a lot of higher price buds or cans I've tried or owned over the years.
 
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that something like a $200 pair of T-Peos will be on the same level as a pair of JH16's or something like that. But is it unfair or incorrect to say that the T-Peos can't offer nearly the same sound? I don't think so. 
 
Thoughts? 

 

[Music Alchemist]

They are definitely becoming more competitive, but still have a way to go to make the high-end offerings obsolete.
 
I have no direct experience with high-end IEMs, but from what I hear, many are on the same level as some of the best circumaural headphones. The only earphones I have (not counting the Apple earbuds included with iPods) cost around $50, but they sound so bad to me in comparison to aforementioned headphones that I can't listen to them - and they keep falling out of my ears anyway, hehe.
 
Once I dive into the world of custom IEMs, I'll be sure to let Head-Fi know whenever I come across a comparable budget model.

 

[H20Fidelity]

It's an Interesting topic.

I think the gaps closing yes, at least to the extent you don't need to pay big money to achieve good sound. With products popping up like KC06, appreantly the Tenores, you can do quite well for around $100. The real eye opener for me last year was Dunu DN-1000, and most recently Brainwavs S5. The Altone was always designed to try and crush it's competition with a different approach, as in keep the outside basic while keeping internals high end. Though I think most importantly we're seeing technology in driver material, tuning and design advancing while the last few years products are slowly (but still living) fading out.

You won't catch a 1plus2 anytime soon for $100 though.

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[AndroidVageta]

It's an Interesting topic.

You won't catch a 1plus2 anytime soon for $100 though.

 
Oh no, like I said, I don't think ALL high-end buds will be caught up too but the gap is narrowing. 
 
The Narmoo's are the ONLY bud I own right now with the plans on getting an Altone200 or H-300...only problem is that I'm not even questioning getting those. The Narmoo's (again, to my ears) are...good enough? For them to be so close to the best I've ever owned I'm starting to question if anything in my price range is REALLY worth it now!
 
I can say undoubtedly that these Narmoo's sound better than the last cans I owned...the HE-400's...in every way based on what I remember about them. And yet again, these are the only new budget IEM's I've owned.

 

[H20Fidelity]

Oh no, like I said, I don't think ALL high-end buds will be caught up too but the gap is narrowing. 

The Narmoo's are the ONLY bud I own right now with the plans on getting an Altone200 or H-300...only problem is that I'm not even questioning getting those. The Narmoo's (again, to my ears) are...good enough? For them to be so close to the best I've ever owned I'm starting to question if anything in my price range is REALLY worth it now!

I can say undoubtedly that these Narmoo's sound better than the last cans I owned...the HE-400's...in every way based on what I remember about them. And yet again, these are the only new budget IEM's I've owned.

I've often found once the brain adjusts to a signature you can repetitively say to yourself 'this is all I need' I get that sensation atm with a $60 pair of Takstar headphones driven from an iPod classic and I'd be almost certain that feeling could last. The deal breaker is though when I switch over to the $650 Hybrid it becomes clear what was missing, my brain is reminded and breaks the pattern.

The secret is to come to head-fi.org once, buy one earphone then turn and run. Though if you're reading this you probably didn't.

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[AndroidVageta]

I've often found once the brain adjusts to a signature you can repetitively say to yourself 'this is all I need' I get that sensation atm with a $60 pair of Takstar headphones driven from an iPod classic and I'd be almost certain that feeling could last. The deal breaker is though when I switch over to the $650 Hybrid it becomes clear what was missing, my brain is reminded and breaks the pattern.

The secret is to come to head-fi.org once, buy one earphone then turn and run. Though if you're reading this you probably didn't.

 
No, I can say it isn't that. There are particular songs that I've listened to 1,000 times and know what to listen to and for and these really do sound that good. The sub-bass and bass is there, the mids are there, the highs are nearly there, and everything else is at least on par.
 
No delusions here or false sense....the Narmoo's are just that damn good. 
 
This wasn't written as a Narmoo review or anything, by the way, just what I have to compare and what really brought this thought on.

 

[encoreAC]

As for me I love my Sony MH1 for 5€ and would prefer it over a lot of higher priced IEM's

 

[catscratch]

Well, I haven't really been in the market for IEMs for quite a few years now, but having observed the market for a long time, I'd say it's quite the opposite. A few years back Westone's top IEM was $850, now it's $1500. Quite a few other manufacturers have IEMs at the $2k pricepoint. They're building them because the market is obviously buying them, and the trend for high-end stuff has been ever increasing prices. Headphones like the HD600 that deliver something you can call audiophile-grade that still costs less than $500 are becoming a bit of an anachronism, and when a manufacturer introduces something they tout as state of the art, lately it has all been priced well north of $1k in headphones and custom-molded IEMs and right around $1k in universals. So, regardless of performance, the trend the market seems to have chosen for itself is prices going way, way up.

As far as any performance trickling down, I would sure hope there is some of that, but I've been out of the headphone game for so long and there's so much new stuff on the market, especially at the low end, that I can't really say one way or another. Overall, I'm kind of happy that the headphone market is growing so quickly, but am also alarmed that it seems to parallel the speaker market more and more.

 

[H20Fidelity]

Well, I haven't really been in the market for IEMs for quite a few years now, but having observed the market for a long time, I'd say it's quite the opposite. A few years back Westone's top IEM was $850, now it's $1500. Quite a few other manufacturers have IEMs at the $2k pricepoint. They're building them because the market is obviously buying them, and the trend for high-end stuff has been ever increasing prices. Headphones like the HD600 that deliver something you can call audiophile-grade that still costs less than $500 are becoming a bit of an anachronism, and when a manufacturer introduces something they tout as state of the art, lately it has all been priced well north of $1k in headphones and custom-molded IEMs and right around $1k in universals. So, regardless of performance, the trend the market seems to have chosen for itself is prices going way, way up.

As far as any performance trickling down, I would sure hope there is some of that, but I've been out of the headphone game for so long and there's so much new stuff on the market, especially at the low end, that I can't really say one way or another. Overall, I'm kind of happy that the headphone market is growing so quickly, but am also alarmed that it seems to parallel the speaker market more and more.

That's one thing I forgot to mention last night keeping it brief on my phone. The price inflating terribly high on the higher end products. $1000+ seems the norm for a high end earphone now, and realistically not everyone can afford it. Even the DAP market is going crazy. AK240 has taken the price of premium to an extreme and sadly other companies will follow suit, because they can. Cowon are the first to follow with thier new product edging over $1k.

In the end it makes the mid / low stream more appealing for the average consumer, and a bigger market to make money.

 

[kova4a]

Well, the thing is that the past few years the entry and mid level iems have been getting better and better while the high-end stuff is getting more and more expensive. Now, everyone here is aware of diminishing returns and the high-end stuff has always been reserved for the people willing to pay top dollar for top of the line products. I love that nowadays people can get for cheap the sound that just few years ago one had to pay at least $200-300 bucks to get but that doesn't change the fact that they still can't match the good higher end stuff. It's a fact though that the TOTL gear has jumped up quite a bit in price and while akg k3003 used to be considered a ridiculously priced iem, now there are a lot of $1000+ c/iems. One can argue that it's because with more and more drivers added there are a lot more R&D expenses and manufacturing is a lot harder but still as I said they have their market and it's not the average audio enthusiasts. So just because a lot of people can't afford them or think it's way too much money to spend on a pair of c/iems that doesn't mean that there aren't any people who can afford them and are willing to buy them. It's a niche market and it has always been , so I don't see anything suddenly changing and making it irrelevant 
Of course, there is high-end stuff and high-end stuff - they are not all equal in performance. Also, personal preference comes into play again and just because someone heard something expensive that he didn't like doesn't mean that there isn't high-end stuff out there that he might like immensely. It's just harder to experiment, especially if one has limited funds.
Generally, if someone loves a certain cheap iem my advice is to get a backup pair and get out of head-fi immediately.

 

[AndroidVageta]

Higher-end stuff becoming more expensive sort of goes along with my over all point though. The fact that IEM's and full-sized can's cost 1.5-3x what they did a few years ago doesn't necessarily mean that they're THAT much better. Just means that they charge more. The HD800's that sell used for $1,200 because they're $1,500 new used to cost $1,000 new not too long ago. Same headphone. Same performance. Just cost more.
 
Either way, I'm not trying to claim that the T-Peos and Dunu's of the world can compete with HD800's but I'd be hard pressed to say that they're worlds different. I have the confidence to say that I've listened to enough high-end gear over the years to comfortably say that the top dollar stuff isn't really worth it unless you just want or need it. As I've exampled before, the Narmoo's I'm using now sound just as good as anything else over all. Sure they're not as good as stuff that's a lot more expensive, of course, but it's just the fact that they're not THAT far off that I find amazing. The fact that $100-300 buds now a days can even be COMPARED to stuff that cost's 2-4x as much is pretty amazing.
 
I've also noticed that headphones seem to be catching on with the general public. Just as mechanic keyboard caught on a few years ago (remember NEVER seeing or hearing about them then out of no where EVERYONE was making them) I feel that headphones are getting there. More and more I have people asking me, "What's the best headphones I can get for like $150?"...something that even as a geek and audio lover I was NEVER asked that 5-6 years ago. No one really cared. It's because of this that I see a lot of the hybrids taking off and really taking over.

 

[Ivabign]

There is a lot of TOTL stuff that is middling, while there is a lot of mid-fi stuff that would be bleeding edge 3 years ago...
 
I think what happens with TOTL is that it forces you to look at the rest of your equipment - certainly a high quality $200-$300 IEM is going to plumb the limits of sound reproduction from a phone playing 16/44 CD rips close to what a JH16fp can reveal - but add a high end DAC, an insanely clean amp and some high resolution media - and the TOTL headphone is set free to explore the reaches of what is possible from a digital audio device - at that point, I believe they will (should) leave the mid-fi cans behind. 
 
Now we are talking about that 10-20% of sound on the summit. The laws of diminishing returns are evident here - either you are in for the ride, or you aren't. The $300 stuff gets really, really close for sure - but they might as well be a mile away if you are pushing the envelope (and that tends to be where the technology that makes mid-fi possible is forged)

 

[catscratch]

Well, IMO the chief appeal of high-end headphones is that you can put together a headphone setup with world-class resolution on a fraction of a high-end speaker setup's budget. That makes it the province of the everyman audio enthusiast, unlike most high-end speaker systems. But, when you have companies moving their new reference grade headphones more and more upmarket and doubling and tripling their prices because there are enough people who are willing to pay them, there may come a time where it is no longer possible to put together a reference-grade headphone system on an everyday budget, which means that for many of us the hobby will basically disappear.

Now, this is only one possible scenario since companies don't have to stop making reasonably affordable high-end headphones and instead can keep releasing higher-end stuff at less reasonable prices while keeping their existing lineups intact - i.e. letting the everyman still put together a quality rig but releasing an even higher quality rig for those that can afford it. That's the best case scenario. But, I don't know we're actually heading in that direction. I see some reasonably good products discontinued in favor of inferior and more expensive versions (i.e. Denon). Still, as a professional pessimist I have to prognosticate doom and gloom.

Also, I have to disagree that the entry-level stuff isn't that far removed from the high-end. Right now the high-end side is a bit of a mess, you have a lot of overpriced, underengineered components that in no way sound high-end and are definitely not a huge step up, but you also have your legitimate high-end components that sound amazing. I don't think many people that hear an Orpheus rig or a really good Omega 2/Blue Hawaii system will tell you that it's a waste of money. Of course, this is looking at the broader picture and not IEMs in particular.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Astell&Kern stuff, on one hand, the prices are hilarious and I'll probably never get one, but on the other hand, with smartphones having more and more storage and becoming more capable playback devices, the inexpensive DAP market is disappearing anyway, so I guess the best way to survive is going more upmarket.

Ditto on TOTL headphones requiring the right associated systems. I learned that lesson the hard way, and the expense of getting a high-end electrostat was only a foot in the door, as what followed was a spending frenzy of trying to find an acceptable source that could stand up to the resolution of the transducer, and an amp that could drive it. It's very easy to make a legitimately transparent and resolving transducer sound overpriced and crappy... far easier than it is making it perform properly. But when you do, it's just magical, and there's nothing quite like it.

 

[TheBoss]

For me I'd rather own well-established IEMs/headphones that's widely used by audio professional because it meets their sound requirements (no gimmicks), has good build quality inside & out, durable and with lots of spare parts & support to go around in later years.

Pro-grade headphone & IEMs i'd rather own so I won't be suckered into kilobuck-tier hole...

- open headphone: HD600
- closed headphone: MDR V6 and MDR CD900ST
- IEM: MDR 7550, ER4 (confirmed as the most accurate-sounding critical listening device without time/phase coherence issues)

 

[meat01]

Nope. We still have high priced cables and people buy them all of the time even though there is no difference. People want to spend a lot to feel like they are getting the best sound. I do agree that a lot of the cheaper iems do sound awesome for the money. I just got the Havi B3s and am very happy with them.

With DAPs, amps and DACs, I don't think there is any reason to spend more than $500, but These are actually getting more and more expensive and people are unfortunately paying for them, so they are making more of them. DAC technology has been out forever and memory is dirt cheap yet here we have these selling for more than a TV.